[When folks push the benefits of a socialized medical system, if you smoke, remember, the system wants your money, but, not your body.]

"Heavy smokers could be denied NHS treatment"
by GRAEME WILSON, Daily Mail

08:25am 28th November 2005

"Patients with illnesses deemed to be 'self-inflicted' could be denied treatment under guidance introduced by the drugs rationing watchdog.

Heavy drinkers or smokers and those who are overweight could all be refused help.

Patients' groups last night demanded to know how far the definition of 'self-inflicted' illness might go.

They are concerned it could also cover conditions such as sports injuries.

Details of the guidelines emerged days after health trusts in Suffolk announced that obese patients would be banned from having knee and hip replacements. It appears in a document produced by the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence to help decide how new drugs and treatments could best be employed.

In the section on self-induced illnesses, the document, entitled Social Value Judgments, says treatment could be withheld if the selfinflicted cause of the illness affects the 'clinical or cost effectiveness' of a drug or treatment.

But it adds that NICE should try not to deny treatment to those whose condition is partly or wholly self-inflicted.

Speaking to a Sunday newspaper, NICE chairman Sir Michael Rawlins defended the approach.

"Alcoholism rots the liver and if the patient is going to continue drinking, giving them a liver when there is already a shortage of organs is not a sensible use of resources," he said.

"We are not punishing alcoholics. It is just that it is pointless spending all that money and using a liver that could be used for someone else."

Patients' groups last night asked who would decide what a 'self-inflicted' illness was.

Michael Summers, chairman of the Patients Association, said many people were worried by the events in Suffolk.

The NICE guidance would merely add to that concern.

"It's a question of where you draw the line. If someone falls down a mountain or hurts himself playing sport, is that self-inflicted?" he said.

"And you have to say that some people are not overweight because of their lifestyle.

"In some cases, it's something they may have inherited - is that self-inflicted?

"I find this whole debate quite disturbing. Is it moral for someone to decide whether or not you are eligible for treatment in this way?"

A poll by the website Doctors.net.uk found one in five doctors said they had withheld treatment from a patient because of their 'unhealthy' lifestyle.

A NICE spokesman said last night the guidance was for its own staff. It would not be issued to hospitals or doctors.

"NICE will use this to inform the development of future guidance for the NHS on specific clinical conditions," she added.

Five health trusts in East Suffolk, including Ipswich Hospital NHS Trust, are to deny hip and knee replacements to patients who are overweight, it emerged last week.

The plans come as the trusts attempt to reduce a £47.9million deficit. The policy was defended by Dr Brian Keeble, who is the director of public health care for Ipswich Primary Care Trust. He said there was 'good science' behind the decision to target obese patients.

He added: "Patients who are overweight do worse after operations, particularly bigger and longer operations."

Daily Mail

quote:

"Alcoholism rots the liver and if the patient is going to continue drinking, giving them a liver when there is already a shortage of organs is not a sensible use of resources," he said.

I've never done any reading on transplants, but if a 50 year old alcoholic needs a transplant I'd think it would last him the rest of his life, the same as a non-alcoholic person in need of the same liver. So I don't see any reason why there should be any debate over who gets it: First come-first served. Unless, of course, it's to punish the "sinful."

Maybe they should go back to the old tried and true method: Whoever has the cash gets it. I mean, have you ever heard of an auto repair shop turn away a customer because they didn't change their oil often enough to suit them or they backed their car into a tree just too many times? I haven't.

posted yesterday on the Wheeler Report: the legislature is looking into the obesity subject and it's affects on healthcare costs, and where they will get the next Big Money Windfall, as we speak. wow, that came faster than I expected, I figured they'd wait a few years to pounce on the next level of second class citizens, after they'd disposed of we smokers! ahhh the smell of pharma money in the morning-must get them all revving for the next challenge of "who must be fixed"-and I guess I really like the phrase- We must Assimilate You-borgtalk to describe the antis the best.

quote:

Originally posted by oldstudent:
ahhh the smell of pharma money in the morning-must get them all revving for the next challenge of "who must be fixed".

Classic! I love it!

Does anyone see an eventual demise of big pharm? What would it take for people to see the light- short of an all-out mass death plague?

quote:

Originally posted by Jason K:
Does anyone see an eventual demise of big pharm? What would it take for people to see the light- short of an all-out mass death plague?

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.