You might want to take a look at this:

http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t...ight=smoking&start=0

Especially the posts by "antioxidant_addict" who calls smokers addicts.


(BTW, I put this is Critical Thinking because the same scam is being perpetrated on alternative medicine and the vitamin/supplement users as on smokers, but the vitamin users just don't see it. Following the money trail, they both lead back to Big Pharma. )

Actually, that was an extremely intelligent conversation before that nazi asshole chimed in.

Yes, many intelligent conversations on many boards have taken a downturn when the rabid smoker-haters all show up, spewing the same, worn out propaganda.

quote:

Originally posted by tnsmoker:
You might want to take a look at this:

http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t...ight=smoking&start=0

Especially the posts by "antioxidant_addict" who calls smokers addicts.


(BTW, I put this is Critical Thinking because the same scam is being perpetrated on alternative medicine and the vitamin/supplement users as on smokers, but the vitamin users just don't see it. Following the money trail, they both lead back to Big Pharma. )

Thanks for notifying me since they are talking about this thread where I made a case for tobacco smoking and defended it (using lots of citations and hard science links) against all comers until any rational resistance ceased. I am glad to see that the message is getting around.

If a large enough number of smokers knew it, the antismoking scam would be wiped out overnight. That's why it is disappointing to see FORCES wasting time, resources and energies of some very smart, talented folks writing there for over a decade, on SHS debate or trying to convince general public or even antismokers. They need to focus on smokers exclusively and explain to them why they smoke (because it is good for them). Until smokers shake off the antismoking spell (delusion that their habit is a harmful sin), few will join and FORCES will remain marginal.



Dr. Douglass, on whose forum that discussion took place, wrote a book on benefits of smoking: "The Health Benefits of Tobacco: A Smoker's Paradox" with a message similar to that in a Dr. Whitby's book "Smoking is good for you". That's all FORCES and other smoker groups need to focus on, how to get that little fact to smokers. Let's hope someone there is listening.

The suppliment industry is equally under attack by the drug companies, just as WHO has treaties on smoking they also have treaties on suppliments.

Vitamin suppliments are baned in the Europeon Union and are required to prove their claims of benefit just as any prescribed medicine. The treaty is in Washington for ratification now.

In terms of the forum, I would propose they anyone who has a history of lung cancer and heart disease in their family to avoid smoking or breathing for that matter.

I am a third generation smoker and although I live in and grew up in a large metropolitan area have never met anyone with lung cancer. No one in my family has died of lung cancer or heart disease and all lived in excess of a normal life span.

It would seem obvious that medical professionals working in wards with lung cancer patients will see and be effected by their patients. The same is true for doctors dealing with tropical disease and illness in Africa.

If I were to talk to people employed in resorts about their clients I would hear something completely different.

If you talk to people working in jails and prisons you get their stories about their clients.

If people can not handle dealing with their clients they need to change jobs.

Asking people dealing with concentrations of others effected by anything are going to have stories to tell, both successes and failures.

It is like the general public with no background in entertainment venues what is going on inside them, they haven't a clue but various opinions.

Each of us has one life to live and what we do with it is up to us as individuals. We are not raw material for other's benefit.

quote:

Originally posted by Bruce Fox:
It is like the general public with no background in entertainment venues what is going on inside them, they haven't a clue but various opinions.

Good point, Bruce. I work in insurance and it often occurs to me that our insured participants would be aghast if they knew the the "inside baseball" of the business, versus what is sold to them in the outside world.

Regarding entertainment, if I've taken your point correctly, I think of the recent Britney Spears stories in the news and I'm always struck by two things.

First, I'm shocked and amazed by how much worthless information I have in my head about celebrities, and here's the key thing, without making any proactive effort whatsoever to obtain it. Simply by its inescapability, I know the story regarding the whole Britney Spears incident of shaving her head and going into rehab, etc. but I don't listen to this woman's music, I didn't purchase anything to give me the information, I don't read gossip or entertainment magazines, I don't watch entertainment/celebrity TV shows and I didn't want it in my mind in the first place. Still, there it is. A space in my brain that could hold a simple equation, a geographical fact, a constitutional amendment, the date of a loved one's birthday, is taken up with information I didn't want regarding Britney Spears.

Second, it occurs to me that incidents like this recent Britney Spears episode are complete fabrications. Celebrities on that level probably get paid 2 million dollars or more for a prime time interview and its a lot easier to shave your head and act a little weird than it is to record an album, promote it, and go on tour. The press hounds you constantly no matter how you act, so you might as well do something with it.

This comes full circle regarding the issues we discuss on this board. There are so many hands in the pot and such a long chain of influence before information gets to the public, that it is eminently reasonable to regard this information with a degree of skepticism.

People who choose to smoke are undoubtedly a huge victim of this phenomena and, I believe, the real danger here has nothing to do with tobacco filled sticks, in and of themselves. Rather, anti-smoking was a tipping point in a path of least resistance. "Identity Theft", for example, has created a fear campaign that is massively disproportionate to the actual threat and, yes, I've had my "identity stolen". It was a pain in the ass, but it got fixed and it was a far cry from the end of the world. Notice the Orwellian words, "Identity theft". No one "steals your identity", they just use your credit cards. You're not going to find another guy living in your house or going to your job. The government seems to want us to believe some Movie of the Week scenario where you can't prove you are who you are.

Here's the most important distinction. Many blame these problem on Capitalism or Corporations and you'll notice that Capitalism isn't the problem. The problem is when private Capitalism gets mixed in with the government. Big Government is the problem. You'll notice that whenever you see a major problem tied to a Corporation, whether it be Wal-Mart or Halliburton or Exxon-Mobil or Big Pharma or Big Tobacco or Big Media, that the key ingredient in the problem is that the people who run the government continually encourage a scenario where they, the elected officials, can be paid off and influenced via lobbying groups. When corporations don't behave the way that they should, there should be a price to pay via law, but the problem isn't corporations, but the fact that corrupt politicians never execute their offices in the manner that they are sworn to. Bigger government only expands this problem and asking for government solutions is an invitation for disaster. People must get accurate information from the press and media, but these institutions are also tied into government. One finds themself on the fringe looking for good information and what do they find? 9/11 conspiracy theories and other such tripe.

Our country can't run this way. If someone wants to lobby, they should be doing so on the basis of a reasonable argument, not on the basis of a suitcase full of money. Then, maybe, people could vote with their dollar.

My point was based on the belief that the people who want smoke free venues never spend the money to use them. How can someone who does not drink prescribe what happens in a venue where people drink?

It is like men deciding what happens to a women's body.

Like Catholic priests, with no knowledge of marriage outside the ceremony dictating how the union is to function.

I am not the only person in my community with my name. No theft, just careless staff. I have had checks guarantied by my bank account by others' with the same name. I have had background checks reveal a criminal record on the same grounds. Other than my name, nothing except our community joins us. We are different ages, different races, and different social security numbers. Carelessness is to blame.