quote:

Originally posted by WinstonSmith:
Another thing I'm EXTREMELY interested in is the human tendency toward asceticism (self-denial, simply stated). The origins of asceticism are attributed to religious efforts to achieve transcendence of "bodily wants", but I can't help that it has something deeper in our collective conscious or even our sociobiological origins.
...
Why asceticism?

That is a relic of primitive, magical thought -- you are basically trading with spirits, you make an offering and expect something in return. Personal ascetism is merely a small scale variation of human sacrifices. Self-denial in modern religions is a refined version of the same mode of magical thinking.

There is, of course, a rational basis for trading with 'higher powers' -- the laws of science provide rational and effective methods for such trading. For example, the law of conservation of energy tells you that to accelerate your car to certain velocity, you need to spend a certain amount of energy in a particluar way. Trying other sacrifices to get your car moving, such as burning your house as an offering to 'energy spirits', is not nearly as effective. Hence, our harwired instinct to 'trade' is not the problem in itself. We do it all the time and it is perfectly fine. The problem is when particular means are mistaken for the goal.

I've heard Joseph Campbell cover the origins of religious asceticism, but what I want to know is "Is it hard wired?" It doesn't seem to me that it could be ingrained in us by evolution in so short a period of time. Also, it's completely counterintuitive for the universe to introduce man into an environment where everything enjoyable is bad for him. Obviously, we can't thrive without some form of discipline or delay of gratification but the thing that puzzles me (and it's more a philosophical question) is whether we shortcircuit in some way and pursue aceticism as an end in itself (as you said, confuse the ends with the means). It seems to me that this is a vital question and I've never seen anything where it is examined.

I even see this at work sometimes; people create a bureaucratic and complicated method for doing the simplest things. Also, many anti-technologists seem to think that doing things the hard way is it's own reward. It seems to very deeply ingrained in people and very often seems to be an accurate way of going about things; hard work is rewarding, or saving can be more rewarding than spending.

The ascetic impulse seems to sit off by itself, in reality. Rather than serving whatever we're trying to achieve, we serve the pattern of asceticism as if that's something to be honored on its own. Groups like ASH, CSPI and others seem to thrive exclusively on the power of this idea.

It makes me wonder if almost all modern wisdom regarding health is biased by serving asceticism. It doesn't seem that Ice Cream isn't a health food only because it's bad for us, but because it's pleasurable to eat it. In common wisdom, pleasure is always bad for health, as I see it. As you've pointed out, this devotion to asceticism may be a self-fulfilling prophecy; the mind treats the body exactly as it believes it should be treated. (Damn you, Nightlight! I'm agreeing with you again!)Who's to tell the difference, though?

Nature was trying to achieve something by creating us with ascetic impulses. I'm dying to know what it is, or more specifically, do we make mistakes in using it and why hasn't this ever been identified?

quote:

Originally posted by WinstonSmith:
... Nature was trying to achieve something by creating us with ascetic impulses. I'm dying to know what it is, or more specifically, do we make mistakes in using it and why hasn't this ever been identified?

To see why nature installed such mechanism, especially in social animals like humans, step back and a take a birds eye view of the entire society (or even ecosystem). Individual behaviors are controlled via pain and pleasure "hookups". There are multiple intelligent networks, nesting and mutually overlapping, which compete for these hookups. The most immediate network in this competition is the one made of trillions of cells making up your body. Then there are networks of your immediate and extended family, people you work with, friends,... countrymen, then organizations you belong to, companies you trade/interact with, economy and whole society. In the abstract realm you also interact with (and form an element for a substratum of) language networks, religions, cultural and scientific networks,...

For example societies often restrict or prohibit use of recreational drugs since your use of, say, some halucinogenic plant, offers your pleasure/pain "hookups" to the plant species (and enterprise growing it and distributing it), denying the same "hookups" at least partially to the social network -- you are forming a close symbiotic relation with plant species, which is from the perspective of the social organism of which you are cell, analogous to you switching an allegiance to another country. It will do its best to prevent you from such treachery. Note that tobacco is not a recreational drug (a pure pleasure with no return in your productivity or usefulness to society). Even though the apparent social zeitgeist is antismoking, the larger wiser networks (compared to Big Pharma/Big Med & health bureaucracies which have temporarily degenerated into parasitic networks) know the score and keep it alive.

The whole system (which is a natural/spontaneous distributed computer) of these overlapping, nesting and mutually permeating networks forms a structure analogous to a gigantic multidimensional crossword puzzle, with all words and letters busily shuffling as the full system is "solving" itself, in all direction and at all levels, all at once, harmonizing its motions optimizing myriads of punishments and rewards. The way your individual behavior is controlled is through your pleasure/pain "hookups".

Hence, what your local network sees as "ascetism" (self-denial of your own pleasures) is in fact an adverstising to the outer networks that your pleasure/pain "hookups" are open for connect into the larger networks, that you are social animal ready to sacrifice and allow control of your body for the goals (optimization of its pleasure/pain) of the larger organisms in which you are a subnetwork or a cell or an element of its substratum (e.g. language networks).

Note that the "outer network" contains you as its cell/subnet, hence it knows of your "advertising" as soon as you decide on ascetism i.e. you don't need to formally or physically notify some external "network authority" that you are available -- your computations are fraction of its computations, your thoughts are fraction of its thoughts (it is what we normally think of as 'God' who knows instantly all that you think, since that is a part of its thought).

Of course, as these networks harmonize, most little motions of the big puzzle serve multiple masters (like a bee collecting nectar and polinating flowers in the process), each little letter fits ever more harmoneously into increasing number of multiple words and hyperwords, in all dimensions and at all levels. Hence, as the networks get more harmonized (this is a bottom up procedure), your service to multiple masters becomes increasingly symbiotic instead of competitive i.e. your "ascetism" (the adverstising) transmutes into a self-sacrifice for the higher more permanent purposes, which in turn becomes a pleasure stimulus to your own local "hookups". After all, your network has a very transient existence, few decades and then it will disolve and perish. The only part of "self" that persists beyond your limited physical duration, is the live, intelligent, thinking pattern you can encode into the outer networks while you are still its seed (this process is analogous to a DNA of a fertilized egg unfolding into the organism). This outer pattern (which most of us ignore until much too late) becomes at that point all there is of "you" from there on.

Hence "ascetism" is a phase of life analogous to "courting" rituals. The latter is a phase in the process which perpetuates your genetic pattern, the former a phase in perpetuating the "self" pattern beyond the existence of your own biochemical network.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: nightlight,

winston and nightlite:
great discussion posts above!
I would just posit,
They are convinced:
We will Assimilate You, Resistance Is Futile.
and that is exactly how I view the Antieverything-they are the Borg come to life.

Hubby and I have come to the conclusion that their "social" engineering is what has been presented here before-communism in it's true colors for the 21st century. and yet, with a bit of facism thrown in for those on top, re: their toys, wealth, power, control...I am talking about the NPO's and their lifestyles.

They are all for the sacrifice (as long it is someone else doing it), the hair shirt/self flaggilation(sp?) (as long as someone else is doing it), the breast beating of the "evils" of CHOSEN lifestyles (as long as someone else is doing it) and on....

WOW!

Thanks so much, Nightlight. What a great and welcome response! Really exactly what I was looking for!

If you've looked at some of my previous posts, what you are calling "networks", I've been calling "patterns".

I'm realizing from your post that I've taken a rather cynical view on this topic of patterns versus networks.

My view has been that cells create the larger pattern of my body and my body creates the larger pattern of my personality, but because my cells are unconscious of my body and unaware of the larger pattern, that this is consistent for all patterns creating larger patterns. I'm just realizing from your post that I completely overlooked the extremely obvious fact that my personality is aware of the body. Duh! This doesn't discount the fact though that such interactions don't always go this way; the ones and zeros that allow me to type this message to you aren't aware of my purposes, I think, but then again...

I've looked a bit at your physics posts. To be honest, they're a bit over my head. So, I'll just ask it this way:

Is the "observer effect" an actual interaction between observer and particle, or is it just hogwash and easily explained by light or something else? Also, is the "spooky action at a distance" (protons responding instantaneously across the span of the universe, despite Einstein's speed limits) a real phenomena? If so, is Bohm's "Implicate Order" a valid explanatory hypothesis? Is reality holographic?

A bit off topic for everyone else, but if you could give me a down and dirty answer it would help me a great deal. (It's so funny how philosophy, which many consider to be a waste of time, and physics, which the same people consider to be the greatest "hard science" intellectual pursuit, seem to hang out in the same neighborhood.)

A bit more on point: In terms of networks, we seem to be up against something that, in the very recent past, we were adamantly opposing. The great American enemies in the twentieth century were Fascism and Communism. Now, these "networks" or "patterns" seem to have emerged and are on the brink of taking over. In a down to earth sense, I understand this and I haven't found very much outside confirmation for my views. I'm convinced that my views would be worth publication if I put my shoulder into them, but I lack credentials (I only have a B.A. in English) so I don't think anyone would look at them, no matter how valid.

Anyway, in a practical sense, the emergence, convergence and acceptance of Fascist and Communist views in America were, in my view, and unforeseen consequence of the end of The Cold War. When Communist Russia died at Reagan's hands, the Communist influences that held their heads down for so long in the U.S. emerged. McCarthy's methods and motivations may have been wrong, but his instincts were correct.

As much as I am shocked and disgusted when views of centralized control are expressed, I know on an intellectual level that these views are deeply ingrained in human behavior and have held sway over the rest of the world while those of us in America grew up in Freedom have gone our whole lives with such a false sense of security.

The pattern of Freedom has to be fought for adamantly at the expense of many millions. Despite the very obvious benefits of American Freedom and how it has advanced the world via Free Market Capitalism and individual autonomy, people still believe "there oughta be a law" which says, essentially, "anything I like and the majority likes is a good law". Despite all of the lectures, they have no realization that they're handing themselves, piece by piece, over to centralized government control. People seem to think that the purpose of government is to enact new laws based on majority opinion in the hope of creating some kind of enforced Utopia that doesn't exist.

I'm rambling, so I'll finish with this: Folks, please know that government can't create your perfect world; making something illegal doesn't mean it won't exist anymore. You can't "hone and carve" the world via laws. Freedom, even anarchy, is better. If murder were legal tomorrow, would murder rates increase? Probably, but the the truth is that 99.9% of people wouldn't murder anyone. I'm just making an example; of course murder should be illegal.

It ALWAYS goes this way. It ALWAYS seems perfectly rational. The motives ALWAYS seem to be perfectly legitimate. The reasoning ALWAYS seems to make sense. It's ALWAYS for a good cause. The people agreeing with such views are ALWAYS in the majority and they ALWAYS seem to be good, decent people with qualifications.

Then the soldiers come down the street and those good people ALWAYS applaud and pump their fist.

Let me put it this way; in 1985, were you walking around thinking "Gee, I wish there were more laws to protect me, because I can't get through life without more and more government protection"? If so, will things be better in 2029? We'll be lucky if we're still here.

Tobacco: the definitive link in healthy aging.
By Daniel John Richard Date

Introduction:
It is a fact, all of the world's oldest living people are classified as chain-smokers [1]. A few of them drink daily [1][2][3], one of them even smokes marijuana daily[3]. Posed with these facts, research was to be done as to why this was possible.

Sources of Vitamin: Nicotine, Cannibinoid, Opiate
The brain contains receptors designed to receive nicotine, cannibinoid, and opiate. Thus, we can be assured that they are necessary components of a balanced diet and are of nutritional value.
Nicotine in Tobacco is analogous to Vitamin B3 (Niacin) [4]. The discovery of Vitamin B3 was through tobacco research, and nicotine (nicotinic acid) is also present in wholesome foods.
Nicotine is found in Eggplants and Tomatoes, Tobacco, Whole grains, leaves and meat. Consumption of nicotine (niacin) by smoking inhalation of Tobacco is profoundly associated with extreme longevity. [1] To meet the U.S. RDA for niacin (nicotine) (15-20mg/day) requires that a person consume a serving of chicken, a serving of turkey, a serving of spinach, and a bowl of fortified cereal; or smoke 2 packs of cigarettes each day.
Anandamide is a cannibinoid in chocolate; it binds with the same receptors as THC (marijuana). Consumption of large quantities of Chocolate is known to produce “Marijuana like high"[5] The consumption of cannibinoid is associated with extreme longevity. [3][6] The world’s oldest documented persons Jeanne Calment (1875-1997) and Sarah Knauss (1880-1999), were passionately fond of chocolate. Jeanne Calment habitually ate two pounds of chocolate per week until her physician induced her to give up sweets at the age of 119 - three years before her death aged 122. [6]
Opiates are found in wholesome foods we eat; Milk, wheat, barley and poppy seeds, all contain significant amounts of opiate proteins that stimulate the exact same opiate binding receptors in the brain as heroin [7]
It would seem that because the brain is designed with receptors to receive nicotine, cannabinoid, and opiate; and their sources being inherently attractive sources of food; Marijuana, Chocolate, Tobacco, Bread, Meat, and Dairy; any intelligent and educated person could capably realize that this meant “higher” nutrition.

The Value of Nicotine, Cannibinoid, and Opiate Vitamins in History:
Tobacco
Man was never meant to run out of Tobacco and experience withdrawal symptoms, it is the fastest producing crop in the world; yielding 1 million seeds per plant. [8] Praised by Native American tribes for its peaceful qualities. They believed smoking allowed for one to communicate with the “Great Spirit” (North American-monotheistic deity) and the “Heart of Sky” (South American-monotheistic deity). This coincides with the old testament of the bible, which believes that making “Burnt Offerings” allowed for one to atone for their sin, and become united with the Holy Spirit. The Central American Mazatec Shamans practice Catholicism today, they drink Fermented Tobacco Juice and smoke the leaves of psycho-active jungle herbs (Salvia); they believe that this is the way of Jesus Christ.
Cannabis
Marijuana is industrially the most useful plant ever cultivated by man; it is praised in the bible for its psychoactive properties [9]. It is scholarly understood that the word Cannabis has its earliest root in the Semitic Language of Hebrew. The ancient Hebrew word for Cannabis is Kaneh–Bosem. In the bible, the word was mistranslated to Calamus; though many English bibles noted this error and decided to use “Fragrant Cane” instead, the rough translation of Kaneh-Bosem. Any intelligent person could realize that “Kaneh-Bos” is the origin of the word “Cannabis”.
The second page of the bible states, “And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food” (Gen 1:29). To the good believers of the bible, this means [all] herbs yielding seed across the face of the earth; including marijuana and tobacco, are wholesome and of nutritional value. The following verses go on to state that these things are “Very Good” as well. Most believers in the bible believe that Cannabis is bad, because it is illegal. They do not understand that only man has made it illegal, with the intent of inducing malnutrition among the populace. This has succeeded, with the rates of obesity; pharmaceutical companies are now extracting THC from cannabis to use as a weight-loss drug [10].
Chocolate
Chocolate is an opiate, cannibinoid, amphetamine, and source of nicotine all mixed together, it was held of the highest economic and religious value by the Indigenous South Americans. [11]
Chocolate contains tryptophan. Tryptophan is an essential amino acid. It is the rate-limiting step in the production of the mood-modulating neurotransmitter serotonin. Enhanced serotonin function typically diminishes anxiety. Tryptophan is also broken down by the body into nicotine (niacin).
Consumption of chocolate triggers the release of endorphins, the body's endogenous opiates. Enhanced endorphin-release reduces the chocolate-eater's sensitivity to pain.
Chocolate contains a group of neuroactive alkaloids known as tetrahydro-beta-carbolines. Tetrahydro-beta-carbolines are also found in beer, wine and liquor.
Chocolate contains phenylethylamine, structurally identical to amphetamine, well indicating why this food staple is highly addictive.

Bread
Bread is spoken of highest value in the Holy Bible. Exodus 16:12, “I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel: speak unto them, saying, at even ye shall eat flesh, and in the morning ye shall be filled with bread; and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God.” By direct implication, only under the influence of opiates and nicotine found in bread, can man even be able to understand the divine’s existence. It is also said in the bible, that both Jesus and Moses anointed themselves with holy oil (marijuana containing) and spent 40 days in the desert without eating bread; yet came back gleaming because they had been with Yahweh. This means that if a person has no bread, he can supplement his nutrition with cannabis to remain in a consciousness that is holy.

Milk
Milk, which contains powerful bovine opiate (casomorphine), meant to sedate baby cows; is highly praised in the Holy Quran. “Be grateful to the Bounties of Allah, to eat its meat and drink its milk, pure milk, palatable to drinkers." (16:66) The Prophet Mohammad is reported in the Hadith Collection of his records to have encouraged a man to drink more milk than he normally would. The Prophet Mohammad is also said to have never left his house without “Kefir”. Kefir is a lactose based bacterial culture that cannot factually survive without human care. Kefir also proves beyond reasonable doubt the theory of “Creationism”. Not only is this organism unable reproduce itself without human care, but historic man did not have the capabilities of creating living organisms that would be dependent upon himself for survival. Kefir contains the most important lacto-bacteria’s for the human immune-system, and was required by law to be consumed daily by Chernobyl survivors [citation needed]. It is not found naturally occurring in nature, and only capable of reproducing itself if placed in buckets of milk. The Recorded History of Kefir states that “God rained it down to man from the sky as a gift”, which also serves as the only rational explanation for its existence. Mohammad was reported to have healthily lived for 96 years, and was able to fight war through his elderly age.
Alcohol
Wine is spoken of frequently in the holy bible and especially recommended, "Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. " (Timothy 5:23) If taken literally, we should no longer drink water and instead drink wine exclusively. Jesus turned the water into wine, possibly because water is simply not as wholesome.
Wine is typically forbidden to Muslim’s, only out of ignorance of their own religion, as similarly experienced by Christians with Cannabis. It is stated in the Quran, “A similitude of the Garden which those who keep their duty (to Allah) are promised: Therein are rivers of water unpolluted ... and rivers of wine, delicious to the drinkers.”
-- Sura 47:15
“Surely the pious will be in bliss ... their thirst will be slaked with pure wine sealed.”
-- Sura 83:22,25
How would Muslim’s ever know the taste of wine, and what to expect in the afterlife, if it is forbidden to them in the first place? I am sure there would be no suicide bombings if they took drinks and relaxed like the Islamic people of Turkey.
Health Benefits of Tobacco according to the Scientific Method:
Tobacco tar is known to protect against the damaging effects of Asbestos [12], cure Asthma and prevent Breast Cancer [13]. Nicotine has been shown to stop Tuberculosis in its tracks. [14] Carbon Monoxide may prevent Heart attacks and Stroke. [15] Parkinson’s Disease is associated with non-smoking [16] Alzheimer’s disease is associated with non-smoking. [17] Less than 3% of smokers die of lung cancer, even if they smoked chemical ridden generic cigarettes. [18] According to the Journal of Theoretic, Smoking simply does not cause Lung Cancer. [19a] Researchers attempted to induce lung-cancer in thousands of mice through exposure to chronic levels of tobacco smoke (equivalent to 200 cigarettes a day in some cases) every study failed. One study even proved that chronic exposure to tobacco smoke protected mice from cancer induced by nuclear radiation. [19b][c]
Tobacco Related “Premature death” by the Scientific Method:
A person is logged as a premature smoking death no matter what age he dies, including the worlds oldest living people [20].
Anti-tobacco research is paid for and governed by the Pharmaceutical industry. [21] The Pharmaceutical industry distributes methamphetamines to children [22], including Desoxyn (Methamphetamine Hydrochloride)[23] Their credibility and integrity is certainly dubious. They happen to be the sole supplier and profiteer of nicotine patches.

Facts and Evidences:
Marijuana smoking is not linked to lung cancer, even though it contains more chemicals “known to cause Lung Cancer”. [24]
The Pharmaceutical industry has submitted an ample amount of scientific evidence to convince people of smoking related epidemic, some studies have even shown the complete opposite of the scientific evidence I have chosen to use in my research. It is certain that all of the studies conducted by the pharmaceutical industry are biased to produce anti-smoking propaganda (i.e. using obese smokers as test subjects)(or…citing that nicotine dependent fast-food eaters died from their smoking and not from their fast food consumption [20][25] . No conclusive truth can be established from Scientific Study, but people will believe what they are told on Television to be fact anyway.
This essay is designed to educate the brain-washed masses with facts. For this purpose, I specifically chose the scientific evidence that supported the fact, worlds oldest living people are chain smokers [1].
Those who disagree will choose the scientific evidence that supports the theory "Smoking causes premature death"[20]
Scientific evidence is produced of money, and fact is produced of history. Many people have been confused in deciphering the difference between scientific evidence and fact. Under the Iron-Curtain of Corporatism, the facts will not even be known by most people, excluding myself and the readers of this essay.
The fact states that the world’s oldest living people were smokers and suffered no ailment from it [1].
Those who rely on Science Fiction (err...evidence) in an attempt to fraudulate the fact say, "Smoking causes premature death".[20]
I know that my logic must be superior to that of a "normal" non-smoking human being, and I declare that “Fact disproves fiction”. The wisest words to have been spoken throughout the recorded history of man.
A short segment about Alcohol:
Some of the world’s oldest living people were considered "moderate drinkers". Moderate drinking is defined as 1-3 glasses of alcohol a day. The Queen Elizabeth lived 100 years drinking gin cocktails and smoking cigarettes daily. As did George Burns with his 20 cigar a day habit beginning at the age of 12, he is rumored to have also enjoyed ten martinis on a daily basis.

Vitamins in Beer? "Unfiltered" Beer is chalk full of B-vitamins, it is known as "liquid bread".[26] Moderate drinking is known to provide over 50 different health benefits[27].

Is all alcohol created equal?
Most alcohol on the market is cheap crap, filtered beer is crap, preservatives and chemical flavorings are crap and often added to alcoholic beverages. For a good drink, buy quality Gin that has been distilled at least 3 times. i.e. "Bombay Sapphire", mix it with all natural tonic water and squeeze some grapefruit juice into it. Or try drinking unfiltered beer for a real health experience.

Summary:
Read my sources, light up, have a drink, and encourage your children to smoke. One should note, that creationism is shown beyond reasonable doubt by paintings from the 15th and 18th centuries [29]


“Jesus basically walked around bad-mouthing ‘Pharisees and Saccubacees’, people back then didn't smoke tobacco yet, so they were living the symptoms of non-smoking; irritability and hunger. The symptoms of non-smoking made them practically barbaric; The Jews killed Jesus for exercising his fourth amendment.” Daniel John Richard Date

References:
1: The Evidence - World's Oldest - All Smokers http://www.forces.org/evidence/hamilton/other/oldest.htm
2:Biography of Madame Jeanne Calment http://www.biogs.com/famous/calment.html
3. 120 Year-old Woman Claims smoking pot/tobacco and drinking every day is her secret to long life. http://www.tobacco.org/news/237486.html
4. Encyclopedia entry for Vitamin B3 (Niacin) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niacin
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/nia_0184.shtml
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsSupplements/VitaminB3Niacincs.html
5. Neuroscience for Kids: Coco
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/choco.html
6: Psychoactive food:
http://www.chocolate.org/
7. Encyclopedia entry: Gluten-free Casein-free diet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten-free,_casein-free_diet
http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/gluten-casein.html
http://ajpgi.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/290/6/G1105
8. Encyclopedia entry: Tobacco
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761562287/Tobacco.html
9. Cannabis Linked to Biblical Healing
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2633187.stm
10. Cannabis Obesity Drug Trials to Start – Yahoo News UK
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/30012007/325/cannabis-obesity-drug-trials-start.html
11. History of Chocolate
http://www.fieldmuseum.org/Chocolate/history_intro.html
12. Smoking has a protective effect on immunological abnormalities in asbestos workers.
0429. Institute of Immunology and Experimental Therapy (Poland). Lange, A. "Effect of Smoking on Immunological Abnormalities in Asbestos Workers.
----
Relative risk of lung cancer for asbestos workers was "highest for those who had never smoked, lowest for current smokers, and intermediate for ex-smokers. The trend was statistically significant. There was no significant association between smoking and deaths from mesothelioma," [emphasis added].
0565. University of London, School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. "Cancer of the Lung Among Asbestos Factory Workers."
[Many other studies show similar findings for asbestos workers].
13. Smokers Paradoxes, the Health Benefits of Smoking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_smoking#Health_benefits_of_smoking
14. Shocker: Villain ‘Nicotine’ slays TB
http://www.data-yard.net/10c/nicotine.htm
15. The Carbon Monoxide Paradox
http://www.data-yard.net/10b/cm.htm
16. Parkinson’s Disease is associated with non-smoking.
http://www.forces.org/evidence/carol/carol36.htm
17. Alzheimer’s Disease is associated with non-smoking.
http://www.forces.org/evidence/carol/carol16.htm
18. An Early Warning for Lung Cancer- Less than 3% of smokers die of Lung Cancer.
http://www.data-yard.net/3/md0203_1.htm
19a. Smoking Does Not cause Lung Cancer; helps to prevent it
http://www.journaloftheoretics.com/Editorials/Editorial%201-4.html
b. http://www.vialls.com/transpositions/smoking.html
c. "Inhalation Bioassay of Cigarette Smoke in Rats"
A. P. Wehrner, et al. (Battele Pacific Northwest Labs, Richland WA)
Journal of Toxicology & Applied Pharmacology, Vol. 61: pp 1-17 (1981)

The results show that the highest number of tumors occurred in the untreated control [non-smoking] rats. The next highest number of tumors occurred in rats subject to sham smoking, i.e. rats which were placed in the smoking machine without smoke exposure, and the lowest number of tumors occurred in the smoke-exposed rats. Among the latter, the largest number of tumors occurred in rats exposed to smoke from cigarettes having the lowest level of nicotine.
20. Tobacco Will kill 1 billion this century http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,202810,00.html?sPage=fnc.health/cancer
21. State and Institutions: At the service of the Pharmaceutical Industry
http://www.forces.org/evidence/files/pharma.htm
22. Psychiatric Drug Facts.
http://www.breggin.com/
23. Encyclopedia entry for Desoxyn (Methamphetamine Hydrochloride)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desoxyn
24. Pot Smoking not linked to Lung Cancer http://www.entheology.org/edoto/anmviewer.asp?a=246&z=9
25. The association between degree of nicotine dependence and other health behaviors
http://eurpub.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/11/4/450
26. Vitamin B Sources, Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_b#Vitamin_B_sources
27. Alcohol and Health http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/AlcoholAndHealth.html
Additional Sources
28. Primary Smoking and Lung Cancer
http://www.forces.org/evidence/evid/lung.htm

29a. A view of The Madonna with Saint Giovannino"(15th C.) by Domenico Ghirlandaio (1449-1494)
http://members.lycos.co.uk/dandate2/ufomadonna.jpg

b. A Closer view of The Madonna with Saint Giovannino"(15th C.) by Domenico Ghirlandaio (1449-1494)

http://members.lycos.co.uk/dandate2/maryufoclose.jpg

c. "The Baptism of Christ"(18th C.) by Aert De Gelder

http://members.lycos.co.uk/dandate2/ufojesus2.jpg

This is a very useful, nicely written article and good list of references. Thanks.

Daniel
Thank you for all your hard work here...I have noted it and will follow your links. I appreciate the entire post and efforts!
Don't stop!
Looking forward to more as you can produce!

Tobacco: The Definitive Link in Healthy Aging
By Daniel John Richard Date
“I have great respect for the heroic efforts of doctors and psychiatrists who prescribe pharmaceutical grade methamphetamine to autistic children, now reported to afflict every one out of hundred and fifty.” -Daniel Date
Introduction:
It is a fact, all of the world's oldest living people are classified as chain-smokers [1]. A few of them drink daily [1][2][3], one of them even smokes marijuana daily[3]. Some of them claim that smoking was the key to their longevity; accrediting their claims based off the natural credentials of those given, being posed with these facts, research was to be done as to why this was possible.

Sources of Vitamin: Nicotine, Cannibinoid, Opiate
The brain contains receptors designed to receive nicotine, cannibinoid, and opiate. Thus, we can be assured that they are necessary components of a balanced diet and are of nutritional value.
Nicotine in Tobacco is analogous to Vitamin B3 (Niacin) [4]. The discovery of Vitamin B3 was through tobacco research, and nicotine (nicotinic acid) is also present in wholesome foods. Nicotine was given 3 different distinctive names by scientists (nicotine, nicotinic acid, niacin), because of its association with tobacco. By the heroic efforts of doctors, pharmaceutical companies, and government; people would not be confused into thinking that wholesome foods contained a deadly poison, or that tobacco provided the same nutrients as wholesome food; the latter of which is true. The Health benefits of nicotine are parallel to the health benefits of Vitamin B3; increased metabolism, suppressed Appetite, regulated nervous system, detoxification of blood capillaries.
Nicotine is found in Eggplants and Tomatoes, Tobacco, Whole grains, leaves and meat. Consumption of nicotine (niacin) by smoking inhalation of Tobacco is profoundly associated with extreme longevity. [1] To meet the U.S. RDA for niacin (‘nicotinic acid’ 15-20mg/day) requires that a person consume a serving of chicken, a serving of turkey, a serving of spinach, and a bowl of fortified cereal each day; or smoke 2 packs of cigarettes. This awareness can be utilized in a give and take situation; it is possible that a person see adequate niacin consumption by consuming a serving of chicken, a serving of spinach, and smoking a single pack of cigarettes; in the length of one day.
Tobacco consumption is not the only definitive link to healthy aging; we see that Anandamide cannibinoids in chocolate binds with the same receptors as THC (marijuana). The consumption of large quantities of Chocolate is known to produce “Marijuana like high"[5] and that the consumption of cannibinoids is associated with extreme longevity. [3][6] The world’s oldest documented persons Jeanne Calment (1875-1997) and Sarah Knauss (1880-1999), were passionately fond of chocolate. Jeanne Calment habitually ate two pounds of chocolate per week until her physician induced her to give up sweets at the age of 119 - three years before her death aged 122. [6]
Opiates are found in wholesome foods we eat; Milk, wheat, barley and poppy seeds, all contain significant amounts of opiate proteins that stimulate the exact same opiate binding receptors in the brain as heroin [7]
It would seem that because the brain is designed with receptors to receive nicotine, cannabinoid, and opiate; and their sources being inherently attractive sources of food; Marijuana, Chocolate, Tobacco, Bread, Meat, and Dairy; that the world’s oldest living people would regularly consume them; any intelligent and educated person could capably realize that this meant “higher” nutrition.

The Value of Nicotine, Cannibinoid, and Opiate Vitamins in History:
Tobacco
Man was never meant to run out of Tobacco and experience withdrawal symptoms, it is the fastest producing crop in the world; yielding 1 million seeds per plant. [8] Praised by Native American tribes for its peaceful qualities. They believed that smoking allowed for them to communicate with the “Great Spirit” (North American-monotheistic deity) and the “Heart of Sky” (South American-monotheistic deity). This coincides with the beliefs from the Old Testament of the bible, which states that making “Burnt Offerings” allowed for one to atone for their sin, and become united with the Holy Spirit. The Central American Mazatec Shamans practice Catholicism today, they drink Fermented Tobacco Juice and smoke the leaves of psycho-active jungle herbs (Salvia); they believe that this is the way of Jesus Christ. It is quoted in the accounts of the first discoverers of the Mayan Civilization; Cortez and his men, “We were first afraid of smoking tobacco, but then realized that this was good.”
Cannabis
Marijuana is industrially the most useful plant ever cultivated by man; it is praised in the bible for its psychoactive properties [9]. It is scholarly understood that the word Cannabis has its earliest root in the Semitic Language of Hebrew. The ancient Hebrew word for Cannabis is Kaneh–Besem. In the bible, the word was mistranslated to Calamus; though many English bibles noted this error and decided to use “Fragrant Cane” instead, the rough translation of Kaneh-Bes. Any intelligent person could realize that “Kaneh-Bes” is the origin of the word “Cannabis”.
The second page of the bible states, “And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food” (Gen 1:29). To the good believers of the bible, this means [all] herbs yielding seed across the face of the earth; including marijuana and tobacco, are wholesome and of nutritional value. The following verses go on to state that these things are “Very Good” as well. Most believers in the bible believe that Cannabis is bad, because it is illegal. They do not understand that only man has made it illegal, with the intent of inducing malnutrition among the populace. This has succeeded, with the rates of obesity; pharmaceutical companies are now extracting THC from cannabis to use as a weight-loss drug [10].
Chocolate
Chocolate is an opiate, cannibinoid, amphetamine, and source of nicotine all mixed together, it was held of the highest economic and religious value by the Indigenous South Americans. [11]
Chocolate contains tryptophan. Tryptophan is an essential amino acid. It is the rate-limiting step in the production of the mood-modulating neurotransmitter serotonin. Enhanced serotonin function typically diminishes anxiety. Tryptophan is also broken down by the body into nicotine (niacin).
Consumption of chocolate triggers the release of endorphins, the body's endogenous opiates. Enhanced endorphin-release reduces the chocolate-eater's sensitivity to pain.
Chocolate contains a group of neuroactive alkaloids known as tetrahydro-beta-carbolines. Tetrahydro-beta-carbolines are also found in beer, wine and liquor.
Chocolate contains phenylethylamine, structurally identical to amphetamine, well indicating why this food staple is highly addictive.

Bread
Bread is spoken of highest value in the Holy Bible. Exodus 16:12, “I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel: speak unto them, saying, at even ye shall eat flesh, and in the morning ye shall be filled with bread; and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God.” By direct implication, only under the influence of opiates and nicotine found in bread, can man even be able to understand the divine’s existence. It is also said in the bible, that both Jesus and Moses anointed themselves with holy oil (marijuana containing) and spent 40 days in the desert without eating bread; yet came back gleaming because they had been with Yahweh. This means that if a person has no bread, he can supplement his nutrition with cannabis to remain in a consciousness that is holy.

Milk
Milk, which contains powerful bovine opiate (casomorphine), meant to sedate baby cows; is highly praised by the Holy Quran. “Be grateful to the Bounties of Allah, to eat its meat and drink its milk, pure milk, palatable to drinkers." (16:66) The Prophet Mohammad is reported in the Hadith Collection of his records to have encouraged a man to drink more milk than he normally would. The Prophet Mohammad is also said to have never left his house without “Kefir”. Kefir is a lactose based bacterial culture that cannot factually survive without human care. Kefir also proves beyond reasonable doubt the theory of “Creationism”. Not only is this organism unable reproduce itself without human care, but historic man did not have the capabilities of creating living organisms that would be solely dependent upon himself for survival. Kefir contains the most important lacto-bacteria’s for the human immune-system, and was required by law to be consumed daily by Chernobyl survivors [citation needed]. It is not found naturally occurring in nature, and only capable of reproducing itself if placed in buckets of milk. The Recorded History of Kefir states that “God rained it down to man from the sky as a gift”, which also serves as the only rational explanation for its existence. Mohammad was reported to have healthily lived for 96 years, and was able to fight war through his elderly age.
Alcohol
Wine is spoken of frequently in the holy bible and especially recommended, "Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. " (Timothy 5:23) Jesus turned the water into wine, possibly because water was simply not as wholesome.
Wine is typically forbidden to Muslim’s, out of ignorance of their own religion, as similarly experienced by Christians with Cannabis. It is stated in the Quran, “A similitude of the Garden which those who keep their duty (to Allah) are promised: Therein are rivers of water unpolluted ... and rivers of wine, delicious to the drinkers.”
-- Sura 47:15
“Surely the pious will be in bliss ... their thirst will be slaked with pure wine sealed.”
-- Sura 83:22,25
How would Muslim’s ever know the taste of wine, and what to expect in the afterlife, if it is forbidden to them in the first place? I am sure there would be no suicide bombings if they took drinks and relaxed like the Islamic people of Turkey.
Health Benefits of Tobacco according to the Scientific Method:
Tobacco tar is known to protect against the damaging effects of Asbestos [12], cure Asthma and prevent Breast Cancer [13]. Nicotine has been shown to stop Tuberculosis in its tracks. [14] Carbon Monoxide may prevent Heart attacks and Stroke. [15] Parkinson’s Disease is associated with non-smoking [16] Alzheimer’s disease is associated with non-smoking. [17] Less than 3% of smokers die of lung cancer, even if they smoked chemical ridden generic cigarettes. [18] According to the Journal of Theoretic, Smoking simply does not cause Lung Cancer. [19a] Researchers attempted to induce lung-cancer in thousands of mice through exposure to chronic levels of tobacco smoke (equivalent to 200 cigarettes a day in some cases) every study failed. One study even proved that chronic exposure to tobacco smoke protected mice from cancer induced by nuclear radiation. [19b][c]
Tobacco Related “Premature death” by the Scientific Method:
A person is logged as a premature smoking death no matter what age he dies, including the worlds oldest living people [20].
Anti-tobacco research is paid for and governed by the Pharmaceutical industry. [21] The Pharmaceutical industry distributes methamphetamines to children [22], including Desoxyn (Methamphetamine Hydrochloride)[23] Their credibility and integrity is certainly dubious. They happen to be the sole supplier and profiteer of nicotine patches.

Facts and Evidences:
Marijuana smoking is not linked to lung cancer, even though it contains more chemicals “known to cause Lung Cancer”. [24]
The Pharmaceutical industry has submitted an ample amount of scientific evidence to convince people of smoking related epidemic, some studies have even shown the complete opposite of the scientific evidence I have chosen to use in my research. It is certain that all of the studies conducted by the pharmaceutical industry are biased to produce anti-smoking propaganda (i.e. using obese smokers as test subjects)(or…citing that nicotine dependent fast-food eaters died from their smoking and not from their fast food consumption [20][25] . No conclusive truth can be established from Scientific Study, but people will believe what they are told on Television to be fact anyway.
This essay is designed to educate the brain-washed masses; from the lowliest peasants to the highest educated caste; with facts. For this purpose, I specifically chose the scientific evidence that supported the fact; world’s oldest living people are chain smokers and claimed that smoking was the key to their long life. [1]
Those who disagree will choose the scientific evidence that supports the theory "Smoking causes premature death"[20]
Scientific evidence is produced of money, and fact is produced of history. Many people have been confused in deciphering the difference between scientific evidence and fact. Under the Iron-Curtain of Corporatism, the facts will not even be known by most people, excluding myself and the readers of this essay.
The fact states that the world’s oldest living people were smokers and suffered no ailment from it [1].
Those who rely on Science Fiction (err...evidence) in an attempt to fraudulate the fact say, "Smoking causes premature death".[20]
I know that my logic must be superior to that of a "normal" non-smoking human being, and I declare that “Fact disproves fiction”. The wisest words to have been spoken throughout the recorded history of man.
A short segment about Alcohol:
Some of the world’s oldest living people were considered "moderate drinkers". Moderate drinking is defined as 1-3 glasses of alcohol a day. The Queen Elizabeth lived 100 years drinking gin cocktails and smoking cigarettes daily. As did George Burns with his 20 cigar a day habit beginning at the age of 12, he is rumored to have also enjoyed ten martinis on a daily basis.

Vitamins in Beer? "Unfiltered" Beer is chalk full of B-vitamins, it is known as "liquid bread".[26] Moderate drinking is known to provide over 50 different health benefits[27].

Is all alcohol created equal?
Most alcohol on the market is cheap crap, filtered beer is crap, preservatives and chemical flavorings are crap and often added to alcoholic beverages. For a good drink, buy quality Gin that has been distilled at least 3 times. i.e. "Bombay Sapphire", mix it with all natural tonic water and squeeze some grapefruit juice into it. Or try drinking unfiltered beer for a real health experience.

Summary:
Read my sources, light up, have a drink, and encourage your children to smoke. One should note, that creationism is shown beyond reasonable doubt by paintings from the 15th and 18th centuries [29]


“Jesus basically walked around bad-mouthing ‘Pharisees and Saccubacees’, people back then didn't smoke tobacco yet, so they were living the symptoms of non-smoking; irritability and hunger. The symptoms of non-smoking made them practically barbaric; The Jews killed Jesus for exercising his fourth amendment.” Daniel John Richard Date

References:
1: The Evidence - World's Oldest - All Smokers http://www.forces.org/evidence/hamilton/other/oldest.htm
2:Biography of Madame Jeanne Calment http://www.biogs.com/famous/calment.html
3. 120 Year-old Woman Claims smoking pot/tobacco and drinking every day is her secret to long life. http://www.tobacco.org/news/237486.html
4. Encyclopedia entry for Vitamin B3 (Niacin) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niacin
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/nia_0184.shtml
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsSupplements/VitaminB3Niacincs.html
5. Neuroscience for Kids: Coco
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/choco.html
6: Psychoactive food:
http://www.chocolate.org/
7a.Encyclopedia entry: Gluten-free Casein-free diet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten-free,_casein-free_diet
b. Information about gluten and casein consumption http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/gluten-casein.html
c. Opiates in milk linked to mammalian digestive health
http://ajpgi.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/290/6/G1105
8. Encyclopedia entry: Tobacco
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761562287/Tobacco.html
9. Cannabis Linked to Biblical Healing
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2633187.stm
10. Cannabis Obesity Drug Trials to Start – Yahoo News UK
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/30012007/325/cannabis-obesity-drug-trials-start.html
11. History of Chocolate
http://www.fieldmuseum.org/Chocolate/history_intro.html
12. Smoking has a protective effect on immunological abnormalities in asbestos workers.
0429. Institute of Immunology and Experimental Therapy (Poland). Lange, A. "Effect of Smoking on Immunological Abnormalities in Asbestos Workers.
----
Relative risk of lung cancer for asbestos workers was "highest for those who had never smoked, lowest for current smokers, and intermediate for ex-smokers. The trend was statistically significant. There was no significant association between smoking and deaths from mesothelioma," [emphasis added].
0565. University of London, School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. "Cancer of the Lung Among Asbestos Factory Workers."
[Many other studies show similar findings for asbestos workers].
13. Smokers Paradoxes, the Health Benefits of Smoking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_smoking#Health_benefits_of_smoking
14. Shocker: Villain ‘Nicotine’ slays TB
http://www.data-yard.net/10c/nicotine.htm
15. The Carbon Monoxide Paradox
http://www.data-yard.net/10b/cm.htm
16. Parkinson’s Disease is associated with non-smoking.
http://www.forces.org/evidence/carol/carol36.htm
17. Alzheimer’s Disease is associated with non-smoking.
http://www.forces.org/evidence/carol/carol16.htm
18. An Early Warning for Lung Cancer- Less than 3% of smokers die of Lung Cancer.
http://www.data-yard.net/3/md0203_1.htm
19a. Smoking Does Not cause Lung Cancer; helps to prevent it
http://www.journaloftheoretics.com/Editorials/Editorial%201-4.html
b. http://www.vialls.com/transpositions/smoking.html
c. "Inhalation Bioassay of Cigarette Smoke in Rats"
A. P. Wehrner, et al. (Battele Pacific Northwest Labs, Richland WA)
Journal of Toxicology & Applied Pharmacology, Vol. 61: pp 1-17 (1981)

The results show that the highest number of tumors occurred in the untreated control [non-smoking] rats. The next highest number of tumors occurred in rats subject to sham smoking, i.e. rats which were placed in the smoking machine without smoke exposure, and the lowest number of tumors occurred in the smoke-exposed rats. Among the latter, the largest number of tumors occurred in rats exposed to smoke from cigarettes having the lowest level of nicotine.
20. Tobacco Will kill 1 billion this century http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,202810,00.html?sPage=fnc.health/cancer
21. State and Institutions: At the service of the Pharmaceutical Industry
http://www.forces.org/evidence/files/pharma.htm
22. Psychiatric Drug Facts.
http://www.breggin.com/
23. Encyclopedia entry for Desoxyn (Methamphetamine Hydrochloride)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desoxyn
24. Pot Smoking not linked to Lung Cancer http://www.entheology.org/edoto/anmviewer.asp?a=246&z=9
25. The association between degree of nicotine dependence and other health behaviors
http://eurpub.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/11/4/450
26. Vitamin B Sources, Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_b#Vitamin_B_sources
27. Alcohol and Health http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/AlcoholAndHealth.html
Additional Sources
28. Primary Smoking and Lung Cancer
http://www.forces.org/evidence/evid/lung.htm

29a. A view of The Madonna with Saint Giovannino"(15th C.) by Domenico Ghirlandaio (1449-1494)
http://members.lycos.co.uk/dandate2/ufomadonna.jpg

b. A Closer view of The Madonna with Saint Giovannino"(15th C.) by Domenico Ghirlandaio (1449-1494)

http://members.lycos.co.uk/dandate2/maryufoclose.jpg

c. "The Baptism of Christ"(18th C.) by Aert De Gelder

http://members.lycos.co.uk/dandate2/ufojesus2.jpg

Daniel you were doing so good until you mentioned creationism.

Great article on my favorite things, cigs, cigars, alcohol and women. (Even tho women was not in the article. Interesting fact about the word wo-men. Patriarchial societies demean the sacred feminine by using words like wo-men and fe-male. Total BS. They are equal, our opposites. Ying and yang, balance of opposites.


First off I'm not a researcher. Far too lazy for that. So what I say is based on my dim recollections of 'hell'....errr, I mean High (Low) School.

---

Consider that the original and oldest religions believed in "cyclical time". The concept of 'creation' or a 'starting point' did not fit into that worldview. (You notice "cyclical time" is the symbol for infinity, the lemniscape, or however the hell you spell it, 8 turned sydeways, like a hamster on a wheel.)

Now what exactly does "cyclical time" mean? The closer you look at this idea, the stranger it becomes. And indeed is "cyclical time" even the right translation? Cause we all know how important it is to get the right translation.

Maybe they didn't mean "cyclical time".

Maybe they meant "no-time."

But how is this possible "no-time", what a stupid idea, we all know time exists right? Well maybe not. Maybe there is a state of endlessness.

First off, one has to see that the mental construct that we call time is just that a mental construct. This whole notion of the "flow of time" is a human mental creation. It does not exist in the real.

What does exist in the real is an endless moment. An experience that never ends. Try it.

Get rid of the artificial construct of clocks and the artificial notion of "seconds" ticking away.......................and just look at the moment. You'll notice there are no seconds ticking away, there is no experience of this seperation point of the "past, present & future". (Unless you have a massive clock staring you in the face.)
(My fondest debates are in science forums where the poster will insist time exists because hell, the existance of the most accurate atomic clock in the world proves it!)

So now thru experiential knowledge we have found something interesting. The experience of eterinity is an immediate experience. This then shows that we are eternal.

If we're eternal, then the idea that we're created does not hold water.

Now how and why, we're eternal, thats the big mystery.

The problem is society is set up asking the wrong questions. Instead of asking how big is this universe, should be what's outside this universe, or is this universe inside something, stuff like that.

mmh.

BTW: I have a heretical idea. I believe that our bodies age because of our blind belief in the time/ the clock. But then again I guess we're supposed to age on this level in the game. This is not the true existence.

I like to think of this place as an adventure-travel-vacation from eternity.

Daniel,

Disregard my first comment. I quickly looked at only one pic, and now I realize the point you're making.

The fine art of jumping to conclusions, classically shown.

(Is there no edit feature here?)

quote:

Originally posted by infinitethoughts:
(Is there no edit feature here?)

Yes there is Infinitethoughts - look at the bottom right of your post - there are three yellow icons - a folder[where you can quote someone] a folder with a pencil eraser [there's the edit key- click onto there] and then the report post warning triange.

There was additional discussion with folks at nootropics forum on smoking vs lung cancer linking back to this thread, as well as more on neuroprotective and rejuvenating dopamine effects of tobacco smoke and finally some on the origins of antismoking.