Article in the Courier Mail (Brisbane, Australia)

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,22979915-5003426,00.html

Snip "MOST smokers are in denial about the dangers of their habit, new research released by anti-tobacco campaigners has found.

The Cancer Council Victoria found more than six out of 10 smokers agreed with at least one incorrect statement that downplayed the health risk of smoking.

They thought exercise could undo most of the effects of smoking, that most lung cancer was caused by other factors such as air pollution and petrol fumes, or that genetics was the major cause of lung cancer.

In fact, smoking was responsible for about 80 per cent of all lung cancer cases, the council said. "


Here is my comment on the story (which they published online):


Smokers are not so much in denial, but rather sick and tired of being nagged and discriminated against to the point where most are no longer listening. The packaging warnings are so blatantly exaggerated that nobody except anti smokers believes them.

In this article the anti smoking zealots claim that 80% of lung cancers are caused by smoking is a fact. The pack advert says 90% but we will let that slide.

The fact is they can’t prove even one case of lung cancer was caused by smoking. No doctor can do an autopsy and state categorically that this person would not have contracted lung cancer had they not smoked. In fact autopsies are rarely done. The zealots are content to get their death toll numbers from a computer model where they control the input assumptions.

Smoking is neither necessary nor sufficient to cause cancer, or any of the other illnesses the zealots pin on it.

It appears that lung cancer strikes down approximately 80 per 100,000 in Queensland. Last I heard there was still about 20% of the population smoking. That is 20,000 per 100,000. Even if all lung cancer cases were smokers, which increasingly they are not, that means only 80 of 20,000 smokers get cancer. That is 0.4%. Therefore smoking by itself is insufficient to cause lung cancer.

Lung cancers are increasingly being found in never smokers and smokers that quit over 20 years ago. Therefore smoking is not a necessary co-factor to cause lung cancer. The main risk would appear to be living long enough to get it, with the vast majority of lung cancer sufferers being over 65.

I conclude that these people who claim that smoking causes lung cancer are deliberately lying. Why would they do this, I wonder? What else are they lying about?

Hello John,
My father just died. He was 86 years old. He quit smoking when he was 65.
On his death certificate it said immediate cause was (A) respiratory failure
(B) Lung Cancer (C) Smoking.
It really pissed me off. He also had bone cancer. Not on list. He also had Valley Fever. He lived in Los
Banos California, a farming community with lots of pesticides. Not on the list. He also worked with asbestos, not on the list.
He was healthy all his life. He didn’t get sick until the last six months our so. He went under Hospice care near the end. He played golf, painted, and really enjoyed his life. He had lots of friends. He also was a heavy beer and whiskey drinker in his early years. He stopped drinking about the same time he stopped smoking at 65.
So John, this is a fact that I know to be true. So what you are saying is true.
At the end he said he wanted to die. He said he felt no pain from the Lung Cancer, only the bone Cancer. He said it was like a toothace in his bone. It actually bore a hole thru to his backside. So he stopped eating, stopped taking his medicine. He wanted the bone Cancer pain to stop.

To a large degree the only reason for any heath information is the media is to fill the chairs in doctor's waiting rooms. They are trying to inspire us to question every twitch and sneeze and convince us they have all the answers, they don't have the answers and many times don't have a clue.

Hey, John L. I went there and posted a comment as well which was --

quote:

Why isn't this fun! Just look at some of the comments readers have posted so far after this article --

Demen of Brisvegas wants the death penalty for smokers, and Facetious of Brisbane wants cameras in every toilet, so as to be able to watch smokers go to the bathroom.

Obviously we need more public education campaigns so that more people can learn to be as helpful as Facetious and Demen.

Thankfully, fewer and fewer smokers are in denial about the true intentions of antismoking campaigners.

LOL, John, I also wrote a first one that I thought I deleted, but they got that too. Oh well -- a little silly but I like it, sort of --

quote:

Why isn't this fun! Just look at some of the comments readers have posted so far after this article --

Demen of Brisvegas wants the death penalty for smokers, and facetious of Brisbane wants cameras in every toilet. Obviously, the more we stamp out smoking the sicker do some people become.

Bring it back, please. Everybody please, please, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke

quote:

Originally posted by Fasttalking:
Hello John,
My father just died. He was 86 years old. He quit smoking when he was 65.
On his death certificate it said immediate cause was (A) respiratory failure
(B) Lung Cancer (C) Smoking.
It really pissed me off. He also had bone cancer. Not on list. He also had Valley Fever. He lived in Los
Banos California, a farming community with lots of pesticides. Not on the list. He also worked with asbestos, not on the list.
He was healthy all his life. He didn’t get sick until the last six months our so. He went under Hospice care near the end. He played golf, painted, and really enjoyed his life. He had lots of friends. He also was a heavy beer and whiskey drinker in his early years. He stopped drinking about the same time he stopped smoking at 65.
So John, this is a fact that I know to be true. So what you are saying is true.
At the end he said he wanted to die. He said he felt no pain from the Lung Cancer, only the bone Cancer. He said it was like a toothace in his bone. It actually bore a hole thru to his backside. So he stopped eating, stopped taking his medicine. He wanted the bone Cancer pain to stop.

So farmers lung was not even considered,
http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d001601-d001700/d001609/d001609.html
Just the fact your father smoked? Sorry your father went through so much pain.
I can believe that is what they would put on your fathers death certificate, it would make sense how they arrived at all the exaggerated figures. It helps no-one, just the smoke haters. I have just been reading this, I am absolutely gobsmaked to say the least. some of these Doctors do not care about the truth, just look at some of the letters, you will need to scroll down an inch or too.
These are letters concerning the biggest ever study done, the one the antis tried to discredit. James Enstrom and Kabbat
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/eletters/326/7398/1057#32346

mandy freedom2choose.info

More lies about 'Cause of Death'.

Fact: About 100,000 people die each year from infections acquired during a hospital stay and this is probably a very low number.

See the link here.
British MRSA deaths

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/new...5798&in_page_id=1770

I'll tell you what smokers are pissed off about. The relentless campaign of lies that are being used to justify taxing us to death. I am well aware of the hazards of smoking. What I can't stand is the second-hand smoke charade. One other statistic I've read somewhere. Medical mistakes a responsible for over ten-thousand deaths a year. I wonder why the AMA and JAMA don't seem to advertise this little tidbit. Denial? I don't think so. Anger about being America's Cash Cow comes to mind.

I found this link and thought it was great, I hope you enjoy it, about liberty.
http://isil.org/resources/philosophy-of-liberty-english.swf

freedom2choose.info for tolerant non-smokers and smokers alike.

quote:

Originally posted by greasywrench:
One other statistic I've read somewhere. Medical mistakes a responsible for over ten-thousand deaths a year.

In the US, federal government estimates run as high as 100,000.

http://www.mercola.com/2004/jul/7/healthcare_death.htm

The American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the United States.

Would you believe 783,936 deaths per year!!

Gary K.

quote:

Originally posted by gkayser30:
http://www.mercola.com/2004/jul/7/healthcare_death.htm

The American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the United States.

Would you believe 783,936 deaths per year!!

Gary K.

My Grandfather died in his mid-seventies. He'd been admitted to the hospital for pneumonia.

My father visited him the day before he died and he was sitting up in bed and responsive and talking.

The next day my Dad showed up to find out his father was dead, the nurses all crying, and the doctor looking pretty pissed off.

Tell me, why would nurses cry over a relatively stoic man in his mid-seventies, who'd been in their care for less than 4 days, dying?

This was about 20 years ago now, and we could never prove it, but my family has always believed that the nurses were crying and the doctor was pissed off because one of the nurses severely screwed something up and accidentally killed my grandfather.

Thanks for your responses everyone.

Winston - I have similar suspicions about the hospital death of my father who was 80. Nothing can be proven.

Gary - would that be "the leading cause of preventable death" - a hollow sound bite that the antis are always trotting out.

quote:

Gary - would that be "the leading cause of preventable death" - a hollow sound bite that the antis are always trotting out.

These deaths seem to be documented.

By Gary Null PhD, Carolyn Dean MD ND, Martin Feldman MD, Debora Rasio MD, Dorothy Smith PhD

A definitive review and close reading of medical peer-review journals, and government health statistics shows that American medicine frequently causes more harm than good.

The total number of iatrogenic [induced inadvertently by a physician or surgeon or by medical treatment or diagnostic procedures] deaths shown in the following table is 783,936.

If smokers are "in denial" about anything, I think it's an underlying cultural perception that makes us easy targets. It's so pervasive, so ingrained from the cradle, that it's practically invisible. It's water to a fish.

That cultural perception is this: pleasure, bad.

Medicine is perceived as essential; pleasure is perceived as vice. Therefore, it doesn't matter if Big Health and Big Pharma kill over three-quarters of a million Americans per year. Most people will simply shrug and go, "Oh, well." Those patients weren't doing anything wrong, and their doctors weren't either. The perception is, everyone was doing their best. You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

But smokers die because we're indulging in vice. This blame-the-victim mentality goes far beyond this one subject. It's part of everything we do, everything we think. Ask yourself, are there any pleasures in which you do not personally indulge, and find disgusting when others do? Do you look at those 60,000 people now behind bars for marijuana use (at an annual cost to taxpayers of $1.2 billion dollars) and think, "They did it to themselves."

If you do, you're part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Divide and Conquer: it works.