Hello everyone!
I've been lurking on this forum for almost a year now.
I live in Serbia (a small country in Southeast Europe) and I just can't believe how insane the governments of the western part of the world have become lately.

In here, official statistics say 40% of men and 33% of women smoke. Real figures are closer to 50%. Smoking is allowed pretty much everywhere, and throwing away a cigarette butt on the pavement is considered perfectly normal.

And we were bombed by NATO in 1999 because our government wasn't democratic enough. Funny, isn't it?

I only started smoking about a year ago; I tried it a couple times before but didn't like it. But our government has been trying to synchronize our legislation with the European Union for the last several years, and of course, anti-tobacco measures were an essential part of the package. Warnings on cigarette packs were the first thing; then came the announcements of the possibility of serious smoking bans. So I decided to seriously try to start smoking, to enjoy it while I still can. And then I realized how good it is. I've been suffering from severe depression for the most of my life, and now it's just gone. Prozac couldn't do anything, but cigarettes did.
Now I only wish I started earlier.

I hope you guys can organize something and bring a bit of sanity back to this world. I'll try to contribute to the discussions as much as I can.

quote:

Originally posted by Doroski:
I hope you guys can organize something and bring a bit of sanity back to this world. I'll try to contribute to the discussions as much as I can.

Welcome, Doroski.

As far as the US goes, I think we'll have to be bombed or go through another depression for anything to change here. Put people's priorities back in order.

Note to US government: The bombing I mentioned has to do with another country bombing us. I am not calling for fellow Americans to start planting bombs. If you decide to visit my home anyway to assess if I'm a threat, please do not come during my nap time; usually between 10:30am and 2:00pm, but sometimes much later and very seldom a little earlier. 6pm would be good unless I'm not home. BYOB.

Welcome Doroski!

Your comment about Prozac is one of the reasons for smoking bans. If you can get relief from tobacco and forgo drugs, the manufacturers loose money, the medical profession looses money.

As a problem is determined a series of various products are used over time to correct it. Each involves another visit to the doctor or clinic, perhaps some tests are performed, and then on to the concoction and start the ritual all over again. Finally, the patient forgets why they first came in and just accepts the last solution offered. The patient is started out with the cheapest alternative and escalates to the most expensive. It keeps thousands of people employed along the way and earns dividends for the manufacturers and their stockholders, capitalism at it's best.

This is also the reason to increase the cost of smoking, most competing drugs are multiples of cost of cigarettes each day. Every time the cost of smokes increase so does the cost of the drugs.

Who knows when it will end, probably only after the cost of health care eclipses the cost of war.

Funny how the studies about nicotine having the ability to alleviate depression always get buried, or destroyed.Personally, I think it is nothing short of cruel to ban smoking in prisons, psych units, and homes for the elderly or anyplace where depression is likely to be prevalent.

Speaking of which..

Back in the late 80's or so -- I was in grad school and we students were having a friendly debate about smoking (those were the days...). At the time, I was reviewing some literature on ERIC and/or PsychLit -- when I came across a study (or at least an abstract) that claimed that "mortality was highest among hostile non-smokers" (what we would call anti's now) -- followed by smokers, I think, and then non-smokers.

I passed this around the department, and we all had a laugh.. and then forgot about it.

I can't recall, btw, if "mortality" referred to study mortality (dropping out) or to actual mortality. It wasn't important then -- it was just a laugh in a friendly debate.

I have not been able to find this paper again. No idea who produced it. Does anyone have access to PsychLit or ERIC? I recall the specific phrase "hostile non-smokers" -- which could serve as a search term. Any takers?

Hi Doroski - welcome! My father is Greek and I have visited Greece many times, including his past summer. Unfortunately, there too - the antis are starting to creep in, though you can still pretty much smoke wherever you like. The Europeans still mock Americans for being paranoid anti-smokers, so I can't imagine that it will ever get as bad as it is here - but the problem is not the people, its the EU that is run by left wing elitists. I hope Serbia does not make the mistake of joining it, especially when one considers how the EU has screwed them over with Kosovo.

Ariel, I'm not surprised about hostile non-smokers having a higher mortality. I work with a woman who claims she can smell smoke on me even though I only smoke 2 or 3 cigarettes during my workday and take care to wash up and chew lots of strong gum after my break. She says it gives her a headache and upsets her stomach and she is a "victim" of my behavior. In the 20 years that I have been smoking, nobody has ever noticed the "3rd hand" smoke on my clothes or breath - in fact many have been surprised to learn that I smoke. If she, and the other antis are such delicate flowers, then I can't imagine they would live very long.

I'm not surprised either Nick. In fact, I think that psychological stress, (along with it's little friend hostility), are two of the biggest threats to health.

By cutting off our social networks through bans and denormalization, the anti's really are trying to do us in. That's why I think it's important that we find social support in forums such as these, as well as in-person friend and family support. I believe that doing what one needs to do to resist becoming psychologically stressed by the anti-smoker movement is not only a healthy action, but is in itself a political action.

Another paper I recall passing around during our grad school debate was one (from Hopkins, IIRC) that proposed to test differential effects of caffeine and nicotine. Only problem was, the researchers explained, they could find a)those who didn't partake of either substance, b) users of both, c) caffeine- but-not-tobacco users, -- but could not find enough d) tobacco-but-not-caffeine users! I thought that was pretty interesting too! In life, I've never yet actually met an adult tobacco-but-not-caffeine user (although I'm sure there must be some out there?)

But it's that other paper I'd sure like to find...


ETA: Maxine, I completely agree. Anxiety disorders and Schizophrenia too.

quote:

Originally posted by Ariel:
I have not been able to find this paper again. No idea who produced it. Does anyone have access to PsychLit or ERIC? I recall the specific phrase "hostile non-smokers" -- which could serve as a search term. Any takers?

Ariel, that would be so good to get.
I looked a bit but couldn't find anything
ERIC link

Research using the internet is worthless because most relevant information has been relegated to the deepest basements if not destroyed.

The crusaders have selectively allowed what can be published on the internet, just as the current media police what they publish today.

It is also wonderful to read about research gathered by the uneducated lower classes while in graduate school.

I suggest if you want to find anything on this issue published before the current controls were added to do it the old fashioned way, in a library. But don't be surprised to find issues published long ago are no longer available.

Ariel--
http://www.eric.ed.gov:80/ERICWebPortal/Home.portal?_nf..._displayStartCount=1

There is a ton of old articles here, can't find anything with the key words "hostile non-smokers" though.

Thanks Gilster and Maxine -- I checked ERIC (I didn't know it was free!) -- didn't find anything either. It was probably on PsychLit -- as it seems more of a Psych topic than an Educ. topic. I'll probably break down and purchase a subscription for PsychLit -- if I can't find a college library or somewhere I can access it for free.

And I agree, Bruce, it's hard to find old stuff on the net. Whether through censorship, or just the fact that these things have never been put online. But back then, PsychLit was on discs. Shouldn't be any problem to just put those old citations on line -- I would think. But I DO trust old research somewhat more than new (funny thing to say! isn't it?)

And hey Doroski! *waving* Welcome!

quote:

Originally posted by Bruce:
Welcome Doroski!

Your comment about Prozac is one of the reasons for smoking bans. If you can get relief from tobacco and forgo drugs, the manufacturers loose money, the medical profession looses money.

As a problem is determined a series of various products are used over time to correct it. Each involves another visit to the doctor or clinic, perhaps some tests are performed, and then on to the concoction and start the ritual all over again. Finally, the patient forgets why they first came in and just accepts the last solution offered. The patient is started out with the cheapest alternative and escalates to the most expensive. It keeps thousands of people employed along the way and earns dividends for the manufacturers and their stockholders, capitalism at it's best.

Well, both my parents are doctors (a psychiatrist and a clinical microbiologist) so I got to see the industry from the inside. They are among the few doctors who still follow the "old" practice of prescribing drugs only when absolutely necessary. They never gave me anything except Aspirin and vitamins, and some antibiotics a couple of times (Prozac didn't come from them). Dad tells me that pushers from the pharma companies are coming to his office in the county hospital every other day, with offers like "prescribe our drugs and you get a cut".
And I imagine it's 10 times worse in the US.

quote:

Originally posted by NickM_71:
Hi Doroski - welcome! My father is Greek and I have visited Greece many times, including his past summer. Unfortunately, there too - the antis are starting to creep in, though you can still pretty much smoke wherever you like. The Europeans still mock Americans for being paranoid anti-smokers, so I can't imagine that it will ever get as bad as it is here - but the problem is not the people, its the EU that is run by left wing elitists. I hope Serbia does not make the mistake of joining it, especially when one considers how the EU has screwed them over with Kosovo.

Do Greeks think joining the EU was a mistake?
I've been to Greece several times - a lot of people from here go to Chalkidiki for their summer vacation - and it seemed to me that they managed to be a member of the EU without compromising their unique character. I don't think they will succumb to the antis easily, but the pressure is indeed hard to bear.
I don't think Serbia will join the EU in at least the next ten years. There is an infinite list of regulations which must be introduced, a lot of them quite ridiculous, and also next to impossible to apply in practice. Another thing, joining the EU is definitely not in the interest of our politicians and tycoons. There is also a number of conspiracy theories, some of which are quite believeable.


As for the "delicate flowers", I absolutely agree.
A couple decades ago such people were widely ridiculed, but now it has become politically incorrect to do so.

quote:

And hey Doroski! *waving* Welcome!

Thank you!


To contribute to your research, I have one friend who smokes but does not drink coffee. But he is definitely an exception.
Coffee and cigarettes just go well together. They keep life going.

Doroski! welcome and 1 day soon SANITY may return to amerika land of the not so enslaved.
we have freedom fighters everywhere and daily our numbers grow. tyrannys days are numbered as the nannies keep up their prohibition on us all.