Greetings All! I had an interesting discussion with a good friend of mine, a few nights ago that I'd like to share with you...my friend is much younger - she's 29, I'm about to turn 50. We got on the anti smoking subject.

I don't know how it came up - but she quoted that old lie, how SHS kills and has caused an increase of ashma and other related illnesses, in kids. I countered that by telling her, well, how could that be - smoking rates in adults have gone down dramaticlly, yet cancer and children's respiratory illnesses have increased. How could this be? - I said. It should be the other way around - that is, they should go down.

Well - she said, I don't know but that's what the experts say. Then she quickly said - she was going to check that fact about the childhood respiratory illnesses with a friend of ours who is a doctor. I said fine -

On the issue of SHS - I asked her to name 3 people who died of SHS. She couldn't name 3 or 2 or even 1 person. I said - you can't name any becasue they don't exist. No one has ever died of SHS, I said. Oh by this point - she was upset. She kept saying - but that's what the experts say - they are scientists and they are experts and I HAVE to rely on them! I said - well, that's because you've been indoctrinated to think that way. Well - she took great offense to that!

We ended the discussion at this point, on her insistance - she just said in closing - I have to rely on what they scientific experts say and I said fine - but these scientist are paid to say this stuff - she just looked at me and rolled her eyes!

I wanted to share this will you all, because I find it interesting that my friend keeps relying on the information of these so called experts. Like I mentioned - she's younger and I came to the conclusion that she's of this opinion becasue all this stuff has been hammered into her head at an early age to accept this and not disagree with the so called experts. I think it's interesting that she won't accept another point of view or an opposing view on this subject. It's almost like she's been programed to reject any opposing view.

Any of you wish to comment on this - please do! I would love to hear what all of you might think.

Thanks for listening,

Hey varla,

I think your friend’s way of thinking is pretty common. Kids are brainwashed into believing the “SHS kills” crap from a very young age. My DH and I love to debate with antis and throw out the same questions you did. You can just see how uncomfortable they get because you are challenging them to come up with specifics and they can’t. They are used to parroting what they’ve heard and have the masses bob their heads up and down and agree with them. Fortunately, my dad had always taught me to not believe everything I hear, to question everything and come to my own conclusions.

DH and I usually hit antis right between the eyes with “if smoking is so bad for you, let’s make it illegal.” When they respond “because of the money”, we just say “Bingo! It’s about money, not about health!” That really ticks them off because they knew the answer and we just made them admit it.

I do have a similar story to share except with a different ending.

My DH has worked with a rabid anti (let’s call him Joe) for about 10 years. Joe loves smoking bans, thinks cigarettes should be illegal, coughs and fans the air when he sees someone smoking a block away, blah, blah blah.

About a year and half ago, our illustrious Assembly decided they wanted a smoking ban in the bars. DH tried and failed to explain to Joe (who loves his beer and fast food) what a slippery slope this was. DH heard the same arguments from Joe that your friend had. DH tried to warn him that his beer and fast food would be next, and of course was told by Joe “that will never happen”. DH just dropped the subject, because we all know you can’t reason with an anti.

Well, the smoking ban passes effective July 1, 2007. Fast forward to this past January. DH came home absolutely stunned and tells me how Joe pulled him aside at work and told him that he finally understands what he was trying to tell him about the ban.

See, during football season, Joe is at the bar every Monday night and all day Sunday. Because most smokers refused to patronize the bars, the price of beer and food took a substantial jump, which Joe ended up paying for. He had also read about the WHO targeting alcohol next year the same way they targeting smoking (which DH had warned him about). He actually told DH, “As far as I’m concerned, you guys should be able to smoke wherever you want.”

Three months later, I am still shocked at the complete turnaround. It’s like we’ve always said, once it effects them, they will pay attention and “get it”. I really think as the drinkers and fast food lovers get a taste of what we smokers have been thru, they will gradually “get it” and move to our side. I believe that someday, those of us targeted in the name of public health will be in the majority and will have a big enough voice to stand up and say “enough!”

It is interesting that I work with a bunch of people in their 20's who are non smokers, but believe the SHS thing is crap, which surprised me. There are 2 antis where I work and one is 55 and the other is 65. Strange, huh?

I argue with antis too, they just absorb the spin from the media and don't look into it further.

Same thing happens when discussing man made global warming- they go hand-in-hand.

Many times I'll end the smoking discussion with a phrase like "I suppose you believe in global warming too" -inevitably they will say "Yes"

I'll argue a bit more on that topic, but usually I wear down, laugh and walk away.

No one is paying attention or looking further.
Sheep.

I receive articles from Google each day on the effects of smoking bans and enjoy commenting on proposals for bans on college and university campuses. I reflect on the concept of centers of higher learning accepting the summary pages from the quoted studies and never read past them to get the facts.

I try to imply that the institution is not teaching their students how to get the facts on a situation by digging deeper into the studies they are using as a basis of their arguments.

I also point out I am a third generation smoker, based on my own research. I was raised by a smoker, who was also raised by smokers, and neither she or her parents died prematurely or from a smoking related disease or illness. My father did not smoke, but did die prematurely from liver damage caused by his gregarious lifestyle. Both of his parents smoked and both lived a normal healthy lifespan, neither died of a smoking related illness or prematurely.

I have lived in a large metropolitan area and had never known anyone with lung cancer until this year. I am 61 and my aunt, 85, died of the disease this year in another state.

I am one of seven children, we are all healthy and have parented 21 healthy children. I can't count the number of grandchildren of my generation.

No one in my family has worked in healthcare, that I know of except a great grandfather who who would have been convicted of mail fraud if he had not taken his own life first. He had the largest cancer hospital in the country, at the time, and diagnosed the problem using mailed in urine samples. He was caught by postal workers who sent him left over tea from lunch that he diagnosed as an active cancer patient.

I usually try to argue on a personal level, who do you know suffering from a smoking related disease, what is their family history of disease and illness?

All -

Many thanks for all your responses! It makes me feel somewhat relieved that I'm not the only one out there experiencing this sudden appreciating of anti-tobacco by smokers!

Cinder - you are SOOOOOOOOOOO correct! My friend did say during the course of our conversation, that cigarettes and smoking will never be completely banned due to the tax revenue. And this leads me to think - if these people are so convinced and concerned about the tax revenue that tobacco takes in - why aren't they as concerned about the number of bars and restaurants that are put out of business as a result of ban damage? But then again, as you explained in your story, it's not until they are affected directly.

Gilster! Thanks! I too have tried to "discuss" the frauds of global warning - especially when the person who believes in this fraud keeps insisting about all the "experts" involved. Then I tell them, "have you ever seen the panel of experts who wrote the IPCC report? There is maybe ONE person on that panel who actually has a degree in climate science. The rest of the panel consists of people like an administrative assistant from a collage and I think there's a dog catcher in there as well!(only kidding on that last one)." (I'm referring to an article I saw on Forces that lists that panel. If I find it, I'll post it here). Or I bring up the fact that the guy who started the Weather Channel questions the global warming issue - they just shrug and say - "well, I don't know anything about him." I just say - "I think that guy might be more of an expert on the subject than Al Gore!" Yes - these people do not look further into this stuff - just accept everything they are told!

Bruce - you're so correct as well! Antis make smoking a "personal" issue! It is hard to discuss this stuff rationally with someone who is so emotional about it!

Thanks again guys!