When NY passed the Smoking Ban they inculded the right to be granted waivers on
1) economic hardship or 2) compliance would be unreasonable. The state says the county will issue guidelines on the economic hardship and the county has stalled saying they are waiting for guidelines from the state.

Today 6 businesses trying to cover all interests food, bar, private club, and so on filed a lawsuit against the county over the delay of these waivers. The county is saying that the economic hardship will be virtually impossible to prove based solely on the ban and will have to deal with each and every business, look at its location, go back more than one year yada, yada, yada.

Two waivers that I know have been granted have been based on the unreasonable compliance part.

Which do you think stands a better chance. I have my waiver here to fill out and I know with two factories closing and the rest of the town going dead they will say that also contributes to the economic loss not just the ban. Being only a few miles from PA and the town going dead plus no employees and that there are only locals as patrons deals me a hand of unreasonable compliance.
Which should I go for.

Another silly question on it is "Please state intended us of waiver if granted." What bull is that. Also State how ALL persons will be protected from involuntary exposure to second hand smoke.

Rumor is going around that counties will be passing their own total smoking ban without allowing for any waivers or exemptions and that will make all this a waste of time won't it?
Plus they say with waivers granted to certain bars close to other bars will cause an outright war and more lawsuits for unfair advantages.

Will it ever end?

Which would you file for?

My impulse would be to file for the hardship waiver, but you know your county officials better than I do. Could you make an appointment with the mayor or some town council member and discuss it with them? That could help your case.

What is absurd is that these waivers that are supposed to be available don't seem to be anywhere in NYS.

A while back it seemed as if the ants would be content as long as no more than a minor percentage of space was set aside for smokers & it was separately ventilated. Now the businesses that spent the money are stuck with the bill.

If air pressure can keep tank crews safe from bio-hazards in Iraq I have yet to figure out why systems relying on air pressure can't keep any non-smokers (who care) safe from any stray ETS.

But requires assuming there is some rationality to this crazy ant crusde - and there isn't.

I place no trust in any "waiver" clause in any smoking ban law.

There is a similar clause in the Delaware ban for exemptions and every single one has been denied. Including the one made by the STATE nursing home that spent taxpayer money several years ago to build a pavilion for their smoking residents and patients. Even though it is entirely seperate from the main building the exemption request was denied because it has a roof and windows thus is an enclosed public place.

Mind you, it is the State Health Department that runs this facility and built this pavilion - the same people that now deny the use of it. Mind boggling for sure.

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Smoke gnatzies: small minds buzzing in you business - SWAT'EM

I apologize to all for the fact I even thought of applying for a waiver, let alone did it. It kept me awake nights thinking and wondering about it but I could never quite hit the nail on the head of why it bothered me so.

Since I have filed it and the days have turned into weeks it has dawned on me that not only do I see these waivers as a cause to pit business owner against business owner (when we should be stuck together like glue) but they make me feel dirty. They make me feel like a traitor to all that I believe in and that by accepting one I give in to the enemy. I feel that I am acceptin their rules as long as I am appeased and to hell with the rest of you.

Now that I have that worked out I feel much better.

You are a remarkable woman, Lizzie.

I happen to feel as you do -- that by accepting the notion that you even NEED a waiver, you might be giving in to the opposition.

But I would never, EVER look down upon you or consider you "dirty" for doing so; you are fighting for your livlihood here. You, like all of us, have a family to support. Sometimes we must do things we don't want to do.

Get your waiver, Lizzie, if you can, and together we will ALL fight to restore your rights and the rights of every other business owner in New York.

Hang in there,
Jenny

Still no word on waivers. Thanks for the kind words.

One of the fears I have is the possibility of some businesses that will drop out of the battle if by chance they get a waiver.

In our small town I know my business stands a better chance of receiving a waiver than the others i.e. no food, no outside employees, etc. but I don't know if I could feel good about it knowing that the owners of the other businesses have worked just as hard and deserve to stay alive. I hate the thought of having an unfair advantage or enticing customers only because they can smoke. I just want MY business back. I want MY customers back, my friends, who enjoyed coming in as their own free choice.

When we first started the battle in our county one of the main concerns was that everyone would start jumping the ship, deserting others,
every man for themselves, as amendments or waivers come along exempting some. It's hard to stay together as a mass when you have such diverse groups as restaurants, taverns, membership clubs, bingo halls and some have an edge on a waiver and some don't. As one meeting might center on bars or owner operated businesses the restaurant owners would get upset that they weren't being mentioned. At another meeting we'd center on smoking rooms at restaurants and the membership clubs felt they were being deserted.

No one, deep down, will be glad for another business if they get a waiver and you don't. I'd feel like a traitor and it's hard to shake the feeling.

Lizzie, you are a truly good person, and your struggle with your conscience demonstrates that.

In my opinion, you should go for and do everything to try and get a waiver. Just because you save your own business doesn't mean you can't continue to fight for the rights of others. In fact, if you save your own, you'll be in a better position to help others fight to save theirs.

Notice that on commercial airlines,in the safety spiel they give right before takeoff, they say that if there is an emergency and the oxygen masks drop down, parents should put on their own masks before assisting their children to put on their masks. The reason is that if the parent passes out from lack of oxygen, he or she will not be able to assist the children.

Now, of course, you're not the caregiver for other establishments, and they are not dependent on you, but if you go under, how will that help them? Better that you survive so that you can continue to fight and help others survive.

Besides, every waiver represents a defeat for the smoking ban.

Get the waiver.

If you get a waiver and do well that will halp prove a point: that the owner knows their customer and that customers who smoke vote with their consumer dollar.

If you don't get the waiver it just demonstrates that workers can leave a job if they don't like it (because of smoking policy or anything else) and customers can go elsewhere if they don't like a business (because of smoking policy or anything else) but small business owners are simply stuck with what they've got (if they don't go under).