http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-07-10-cig-taxes_N.htm

WASHINGTON — Smokers would pay an extra 61 cents per pack of cigarettes to expand health insurance to about 2 million children under a tentative deal worked out Tuesday between Democrats and Republicans on the Senate Finance Committee.
The tobacco tax increase would boost the federal levy from 39 cents per pack to $1, an increase of 156%. It would raise about $35 billion over five years to pay for the largest expansion of the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP) since its creation a decade ago.

"It really does come down to a choice between children and tobacco," said Sen. Gordon Smith, R-Ore., who originally proposed the 61-cent increase. "This is a 'two-fer.' It does decrease smoking, and it does connect public health care costs with one of the drivers of that cost, and that's tobacco."

Some details remain to be worked out before the committee votes on the package, probably next week. Expanding the popular program by taxing tobacco, however, has broad support, including from Republicans such as Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah.

"Tobacco politics has changed very dramatically," said Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore. In a non-binding vote in March, the Senate voted 59-40 for a tobacco tax hike of no more than 61 cents to expand the children's health program.

FIND MORE STORIES IN: Tuesday | Republicans | Ore | Children's Health Insurance Program | Smokers
The CHIP program has insured about 6.6 million children ineligible for Medicaid. Most are in families with incomes below 200% of the federal poverty level, or $41,300 for a family of four. About 6 million children who are eligible for the program are not covered.

The federal tobacco tax, last raised in 2003, has never been increased by more than a dime per pack. Eleven states increased tobacco taxes this year, putting the national state average at $1.07.

The House is working on a similar package that could add $50 billion to the program over five years by combining a tobacco tax increase with reductions in federal payments to private insurers under Medicare. Children's advocates favor the larger figure.

President Bush could block any deal. In his 2008 budget, Bush proposed adding $5 billion over five years to the program, which currently costs almost $5 billion per year. He has criticized some states' expansions of the program to adults and less needy children.

"The program is going beyond the initial intent of helping poor children. It's now aiming at encouraging more people to get on government health care," Bush said Tuesday in Cleveland. "I'll resist Congress's attempt to federalize medicine."

Some elements of the emerging Senate deal would make the program more strict. Income limits for children would be set. No more parents could be added other than pregnant women. Adults without children would be moved to Medicaid, which pays less. Currently, 11 states cover adults under the children's program.

The tobacco industry opposes the deal, saying smokers pay $89 million a day in federal and state taxes and tobacco settlement costs. "We think that smokers are already paying enough," said Steve Kottak of R.J. Reynolds Tobacco.

Anti-smoking groups say higher taxes save lives. "Research shows a clear health benefit from higher tobacco taxes," said William Corr of the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids. A 61-cent increase, he said, would prevent nearly 1.9 million children from smoking and help nearly 1.2 million adults to quit.

Glad I MYO now...I have a strange feeling that many smoking friends are going to be knocking on my door to figure out how to MYO.

The smart retailers out there should get into the MYO/RYO soon to off-set more people going to black markets and Off Shore.

I wish I had a criminal bent - there's got to be tons of money to be made with black market cigs.
Even more once the tax is in place $$$$$$$$

quote:

Anti-smoking groups say higher taxes save lives. "Research shows a clear health benefit from higher tobacco taxes," said William Corr of the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids. A 61-cent increase, he said, would prevent nearly 1.9 million children from smoking and help nearly 1.2 million adults to quit.

First; welcome back Winston, as of late,have missed your inciteful comments.

CTFK has said that each 10% increase in the cost of cigarettes causes a 7% drop in youth smoking rates.

In Chicago over the last 10 years or so the cost of cigarettes has gone up about 400%.

My,weak, math shows that each 100% increase in price would give a 50% decrease in rates.

If you start with 30% youth smoking rate in Chicago; after four 50% decreases, there should be only(says TFK) a little less than a 2% youth smoking rate in Chicago.

Perhaps, this man should get out of his office more often!!

I hear you Gilster and agree!!! I'm so glad I MYO also. Next is GYO. It won't be long before they realize the drop is cigarette sales is NOT a drop in smoking rates and then they'll start their punitive taxes on MYO tobacco.

Yep....growing my own is definitely the path to take here. Can't tax me on what I grow in my backyard for my own personal use. Then again, they'll probably try that too.

Here's a link provided by NYC CLASH newsletter where you can send auto letters to your reps and senators --

TAKE ACTION: There is an opposition letter you can sign that will be forwarded to each person's respective representatives at http://www.capwiz.com/freedomworks/issues/alert/?alertid=9673396

Winston, glad to see you again.

These proposals are so idiotic...where do you even start to tear them down? There are so many holes in this "logic".


One thing is sure, however.

The government is hungry for revenue. And, if these schemes work, and smoking rates do drop, then what will they do? You got it, they'll tax the hell out of something else.

Fools, idiots, and morons, all of them.

Lynda, I have a feeling that we are all going to need to learn paper making techniques as well, once they figure out we are growing our own crops, they simply transfer the taxation to the paraphanalia we use, so unless, you are planning on using a pipe (Which isnt all that bad an idea, I've recently begun using the "bats" that dope smokers use for single doses, as a substitue for RYO/MYO when I can only take the time for a quick drag or two, far less waste that way too), and also, using the "dugout" brand boxes, you have a self contained little system, it carries your "bat" in one section, and your tobacco in another, easy loading, cleaned once a day, good tasting as well. It is also LOADS of fun to play with people using it to, they believe you are using illegal substances, and the shock value is terrifically funny.

Glad to see you back, Winston. I missed you!

What would really suck is if the Fed tax at .61 is IN ADDITION to Wisconsin's proposed $1.25 tax for a total of $1.86. This would take a pack price up to about $5.00 in my area, and that's at the discount shops..........Indian Reservations, here I come.........

As fewer and fewer smokers enter public service the mentality of legislators is to punish smokers, not investigate the facts of smoking.

Smokers are no longer represented in the democratic process.

Is this a country still devoted to "liberty and justice for all"?

Bruce, of course smoker's are not represented anymore, and of course fewer and fewer smokers are going into public office. The rAnti's would leave no stone unturned, no lie left unspoken to make sure a smoker was never elected. perhaps it's close to time for smokers to come out of the closet, but in todays persecutorial environment, all a smoker running for office would have to look forward to is lie upon lie and character assassination extraordinaire.

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Thomas:
Lynda, I have a feeling that we are all going to need to learn paper making techniques as well, once they figure out we are growing our own crops, they simply transfer the taxation to the paraphanalia we use, so unless, you are planning on using a pipe (Which isnt all that bad an idea, I've recently begun using the "bats" that dope smokers use for single doses, as a substitue for RYO/MYO when I can only take the time for a quick drag or two, far less waste that way too), and also, using the "dugout" brand boxes, you have a self contained little system, it carries your "bat" in one section, and your tobacco in another, easy loading, cleaned once a day, good tasting as well. It is also LOADS of fun to play with people using it to, they believe you are using illegal substances, and the shock value is terrifically funny.

Jerry, I agree, they will find any way they can to f**k with us.

Now, just to show how worldy and intelligent I am...........WHAT the hell is a "bat"? I haven't a clue. Seriously. I'm assuming from what little you mentioned it is some little device that pot smokers use?

quote:

Originally posted by Pat:
What would really suck is if the Fed tax at .61 is IN ADDITION to Wisconsin's proposed $1.25 tax for a total of $1.86. This would take a pack price up to about $5.00 in my area, and that's at the discount shops..........Indian Reservations, here I come.........

Yep, it is indeed an additional tax ON TOP OF your state tax. I'm sorry, I have to chuckle here though. The last time I saw cigarettes for $5/pack was a good 5 years ago. I can't believe your smokes there have been reasonably priced all this time. Smokes were $5/pack in NYC back in 2000.

Now I MYO, so much cheaper and not as much trouble as I thought initially.

Lynda, it is indeed a small device for smoking pot, It is a small tube/cigarette shaped cylinder, usually made out of brass, aluminum, or glass, about the size of a cigarette, some are even powder coated to look like a cigarette (sneaky little pot heads, until the current war on smokers lol), I prefer the glass version, it burns cooler and tastes better, but is harder to clean and keep unbroken. They (bats) have a hole drilled through them with a slightly bigger chamber drilled into one end, where you "load" your "tobacco", it usually holds enough for about 2 - 3 drags off a cigarette, which makes it ideal for use when you don't have the time or the weather to smoke a whole cigarette.

I posted this awhile ago on a action alert post on my post the government didn't say what the tax increase on tobacco would be funding but we do now univeral heath insureance



http://speakeasyforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/318607732/m/3991068302

One-hits
One-hits, or dugouts as they are sometimes called, are a highly portable method of smoking grass for someone who does not want to smoke an entire joint at one time. A one-hit is a small metal tube that has a small cavity at one end and a mouthpiece at the other. One presses the cavity into a small container of cleaned grass to fill it and then is lit somewhat like a cigarette and inhaled steadily until the grass is gone. One only gets one inhalation or "hit" per filling thus it is called a one hit. A dugout is small wooden container which has a space for the cleaned grass and another space for the one-hit itself.


http://www.tobacco-leaf.net/wpdugouts.html

Thanks Jem. New to forum didn't see this. Glad someone took care of posting the Action Letter link.
http://www.capwiz.com/freedomworks/issues/alert/?alertid=9673396
A separate section right up the top Action Alerts, or Legislative Alerts, instead of mixed in with Announcements, and I'm sure I would have looked there straight away.

Thank you for the above greetings, gang. I'll be away for awhile more. Just filling the bucket. I'll return.

Thanks for the lesson Jerry. Interesting indeed.

Thanks for the link richlady - I just fired off a letter to my senators and rep. for what is worth. They know that very few people will actually quit smoking because of this tax and that's why they have proposed it - the few who know better and can will get their smokes elsewhere or roll their own. The rest will keep buying their usual brands and fattening the federal behemoth. I occasionally roll my own but am too lazy to do it all the time - that might change now though. Its interesting how this CHIP program they want to expand has only been around for 10 years and it seems like the children it is intended to help are less healthier now than they were 10 years ago. Typical politicians' stupidity - pour more money into a failing program.