http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0702060167...s&ctrack=1&cset=true

It is a known fact that more people die from alcohol related diseases than die from smoking. Q.) Why don't they make a point about noticing the drinking habits of politicians? A.) Because too many politicians drink. Many are alcoholics. They want to bash and banish us smokers while they gulp down their Bombay Gin and tonics! Hypocrisy at its finest!

If Mary Jo Kopenche was still alive, we could ask her.

Too bad the drunken swimmer, and captain of the SS Oldsmobile, sweaty teddy kennedy killed her.....

He's a prime example of what's wrong with American politics.

He probably had to do this - or at least pay lip service to it (i.e. pretend to quit), for the dems to keep him in the race.

quote:

He's a prime example of what's wrong with American politics.

383rr - you make an interesting point. The dems have been generally hostile to smokers but silent on alcohol. Turns out that some of their biggest contributors are Anheuser-Busch and Segram's - then, of course, there's Teddy.

Well if he will give in to the antis. I sure don't want a guy around who will have to face up to the Chinese, the North Koreans, and the Iranians. Whats he going to do when its is time to face up to the grand nannies of them all Nancy and Hillary? See ya Barrack!

quote:

Originally posted by MikePop:
It is a known fact that more people die from alcohol related diseases than die from smoking.

MikePop, can you tell me where you heard this from? The figures I recall seeing here and there are something like alcohol-83,000, smoking- 5 bazillion.

quote:

Well if he will give in to the antis. I sure don't want a guy around who will have to face up to the Chinese, the North Koreans, and the Iranians

Well said!!!

Yeah, as soon as I heard he was a smoker, I said to myself, "So What?" Friends & family said to me, "maybe he'll FINALLY be the polititcian that defends choice". I said, "Choice & freedom are only for abortion-he'll be an apologist and say, I'm trying to quit." Just like phony-ass Laura Bush. I was once again right.

You sure were right, Dave.

I sure as hell won't support Osama Obama.

I was originally for Allen-he chews and doesn't make any bones about it. That sort of went by the wayside when he lost his re-election bid.

Reply to: Squeezer

According to MADD.
http://www.madd.org/stats/1112

In the year 2005, 16,885 people were killed in alcohol related crashes,
An average of one every half hour. These deaths are the “second hand” effects
of alcohol abuse.

See my posting, "Ridiculous Sun-Times Story".

In this post I write about the president of the association which regulates the life insurance industry. He stated to WLS-AM talk radio host, Deborah Rowe in early 2006 that he had never seen a death certificate which lists second hand smoke as the cause of death. Furthermore he stated that not one dime had ever been paid out on any claim that lists second hand smoke as the cause of death. To the contrary the Police Reports confirm MADD's statistics. The NIAAA has based their figures from "cirrhosos" listed on death certificates!

Here are the official statistics from NIAAA
http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/homework/a/blquick04.htm

*Per 100,000 Americans

2003 Death rate/s from cirrhosos

13.2 % of men
6.2% of women

US Population est. as of July 2006
298,444,215

Please do the math..

This is not including accidental deaths caused by drinking and deaths caused by alcohol induced domestic violence and other crimes.

Many politicians are drinkers. The media slams Obama for smoking, and is curiously silent about the other politicians whom drink their scotch as a liquid lunch. Duplicity & Hypocrisy at its finest!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MikePop,

quote:

Originally posted by MikePop:
Reply to: Squeezer

According to MADD.
In the year 2005, 16,885 people were killed in alcohol related crashes,

He stated...he had never seen a death certificate which lists second hand smoke as the cause of death....The NIAAA has based their figures from "cirrhosos" listed on death certificates!

Here are the official statistics from NIAAA


*Per 100,000 Americans

2003 Death rate/s from cirrhosos

13.2 % of men
6.2% of women

US Population est. as of July 2006
298,444,215

Please do the math..

This is not including accidental deaths...

In your 1st post you say "smoking". In your reply to me you mention SHS. Which one are you talking about in regards to deaths vs. alcohol?

I believe you're confusing the data you cited. It's not 13.2% of men. It's 13.2 per 100,000 population. That means for every 100,000 males there's 13.2 deaths, not 13,200. Same thing would apply to females naturally.

Is there something I'm missing?

I was being sarcastic by referring to highway fatalities as the "second hand" effects of drinking. I saw an ad that stated 2,000 people die each day from second hand smoke. This ad was geared to towards young people. This data is obviously skewed and a lot of BS propaganda.

Deaths caused by alcohol are not confined to cirrossis only. There are a host of other diseases and deaths related to alcohol where the death certs list something other than cirrhosos. A close relative of mine died and the cause of death was listed as "hemorrage" (caused by bleeding varicies)..A diabetic friend died from drinking and the cause of death was listed as diabetes. The fact was his drinking interfered with his sugar regulation but he didn't care! Booze was more important!

The point I was making was if one were to do the research and combine ALL the deaths caused by alcohol, these numbers would vastly outnumber deaths listing cancer caused by smoking.

We have already seen all the BS studies that link smoking to almost every known disease, including impotence! I am sure there are many deaths that are falsely linked to smoking due to all these biased, flawed and pre-determined studies.

Mike,
Is that ad (2,000 SHS deaths a day) online? That number would work good in the Fun With Deaths thread (depending on who said it).

"The point I was making was if one were to do the research and combine ALL the deaths caused by alcohol, these numbers would vastly outnumber deaths listing cancer caused by smoking."

I guess that would depend on what number you use for tobacco-related deaths. If you don't think anybody dies from smoking then I'd say you're correct. But if you go by official figures alcohol doesn't come close.

I'd just be careful on making that claim unless you can substantiate it.

I don't know whom does the ads but they are up on the CTA elevated trains!

My friend whom is a doctor (that smokes) has the combined figures if I needed them, including crime, highways deaths and domestic violence stats! Besides, what side are you on anyway? It seems that almost every word I say in this thread is taken to task and scrutinized under a microscope by you.

I never said nobody dies from smoking. Where did you hear me say this? What I said was that the so-called "official" numbers are most likely artificially inflated due to all the biased and pre-determined studies. Even my baldness is now attributed to smoking according to a recent study. LOL I guess this is where all the money to fight the war on illegal drugs has gone, to fund these ridiculous and bogus anti-smoking studies that further stigmatize hard working, law abiding and taxpaying smokers.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MikePop,

quote:

Originally posted by MikePop:
My friend whom is a doctor (that smokes) has the combined figures if I needed them, including crime, highways deaths and domestic violence stats! Besides, what side are you on anyway? It seems that almost every word I say in this thread is taken to task and scrutinized under a microscope by you.

I've never heard this claim before, that's all.

quote:

I never said nobody dies from smoking. Where did you hear me say this?

I didn't say you said that. What I said was if that's what you believed then naturally alcohol would kill more people. I was trying to figure out how you arrived at your conclusion.

quote:

What I said was that the so-called "official" numbers are most likely artificially inflated due to all the biased and pre-determined studies.

Okay, but as far as tobacco studies there have been a number of people who have gone over the data and found bias, etc. in them. All I would be asking for in this situation is if you can supply info like that, but on alcohol research. "Most likely" doesn't really cut it. That's how Glantz defends some of his statements.

You're taking me the wrong way, MikePop, I'm not on the other side. But I don't want anybody stating something that they may not be able to back up. Credibility is key.

After my post this morning to you I looked up alcohol stuff and found a Dutch study which found the highest number of deaths came from mental deterioration or something like that. Adding cirrhosis would almost double the number of deaths, at least in the Netherlands. That's all I'm getting at, is your claim true and If so, what and where do the numbers come from.

Even if the commonly accepted 440,000 number were cut in HALF to 220,000 and TEN TIMES more people died from consuming alcohol than died from smoking, that would mean that ALMOST ALL OF THE APPROXIMATELY 2.4 MILLION ANNUAL DEATHS IN THE U.S. WERE CAUSED BY ALCOHOL AND OR TOBACCO.

MikePop, We are not trying to suppress a controversial view. (Hell, this board runs on controversial views.) However, if you're going to make an astounding claim, you're going to have to either back it up with a source, statistics, or even an involved chain of reasoning.

We have many people looking in on this board who equate our views with those of Flat Earth Theorists and Moon Landing Conspriracists. They believe that we congregate here to spread lies and defend what they perceive to be the most evil form of behavior on the planet.

People aren't accepted as allies here simply for the fact that they smoke or defend the right to use tobacco. People are here because they believe that public health and anti-smoking are behaving in a way that is very dangerous to society. We are doggedly interested in facts and ideas that we can examine. We are not here to embrace any idea that flies across the radar that agrees with our viewpoint (despite popular anti-smoking perception).

Many people here have been at this for years. Even decades. They can quote study results and mortality statistics as easily as they can recall their childrens' names.

So, with all due respect, if you're going to make a claim here, you're going to have to back it up with either some statistics or an involved course of reasoning. Otherwise, you're going to be questioned. I've been questioned here and I've done some questioning myself. I welcome the experience and try to learn from it. I hope you'll do the same and we'll be more than happy to welcome you with open arms.

Regarding the topic, Barak Obama.

I was flipping around tonight and ended up watching...I can't remember the guys name at the moment...relatively young, conservative guy with his own show on MSNBC. Tucker Carlson! That's it! (I think...)

Anyway, He did a segment on Obama and half of it was about Obama's smoking. Apparently, Obama is now using nicotine gum and trying to quit.

Carlson and his talking heads went back and forth with some obligatory comments regarding how wonderful it is to quit smoking, blah, blah, analogies to child molesters blah, blan but Carlson hinted that he is a former smoker and said toward the end of the segment that he hoped (paraphrasing) that Obama would tell the P.C. crowd to go jump in a lake and do what he wanted to do.

Now, let's put this into perspective. There are more former smokers in the U.S. now than smokers. Obama apparently so enjoyed smoking that he didn't try to quit until a month before officially announcing his candidacy for (drum roll please) THE MOST POWERFUL MAN IN THE WORLD, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

As you may have noticed, Giuliani filed the appropriate candidacy papers this week and yesterday he came under a mountain of scrutiny; mostly from Republicans! (I am absolutely befuddled as to why the few Republicans in the media are shooting themselves in the foot by giving Giuliani a hard time. Why the hell are they trying to slow down their fastest horse? McCain has as many problematic views for Republicans as Giuliani. Do they want Hillary to be President? What the hell are they thinking? Sorry. This isn't a politics board, so I'll stop.)

Similar to the immediate scrutiny Giuliani was greeted by, Next month, Obama's smoking is going to heat up as an issue. This is when he is going to announce his candidacy officially (reportedly). So, if anyone can think of how to turn this to our advantage, please speak up.

I think we could turn Obama's smoking to our advantage based on this funny email I received. Trouble is every one of these deaths are documented and real. I remember reading about them when they happened. I think I'll take Obama over Hillary since it's too dangerous to know her! At least I'd know that Obama would have empathy for us smokers.

This is a message from the Funeral Directors of America.
They are all in favor of the Clintons back in office. they say their business was much better then?

SO NOW YOU want to VOTE FOR HILLARY ?

This is what happens when you have dirt on Clinton:

1 - James McDougal - Clinton's convicted Whitewater partner died of
an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a
key witness in Ken Starr's investigation.

2 - Mary Mahoney - A former White House intern was murdered July
1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown. The murder
happened just after she was to go public with her story of sexual
harassment in the White House.

3 - Vince Foster - Former white House councilor, and colleague of
Hillary Clinton at Little Rock's Rose Law firm. Died of a gunshot
wound to the head, ruled a suicide.

4 - Ron Brown - Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top
of Brown's skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of hiswillingness to cut a deal with prosecutors.

5 - C. Victor Raiser II and Montgomery Raiser, Major players in the
Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992.

6 - Paul Tulley - Democratic National Committee Political Director
found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock, September 1992...
Described by Clinton as a "Dear friend and trusted advisor."

7- Ed Willey - Clinton fund raiser, found dead November
1993 deep in the woods in VA of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide.
Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill
Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House.
Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events.

8 - Jerry Parks - Head of Clinton's gubernatorial security team in
Little Rock. Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection
outside Little Rock. Park's son said his father was building a
dossier on Clinton. He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.

9 - James Bunch - Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported
that he had a "Black Book" of people which contained names of
influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas.

10 - James Wilson - Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent
hanging suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater.

11- Kathy Ferguson, ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson,
was found dead in May 1994, in her living room with a gunshot to
her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several
packed suitcases, as if she were going somewhere. Danny
Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula
Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.

12 - Bill Shelton - Arkansas State Trooper and fiancee of Kathy
Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancee, he was found
dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the
grave site of his fiancee.

13 - Gandy Baugh - Attorney for Clinton's friend Dan Lassater, died
by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.

14 - Florence Martin - Accountant & sub-contractor for the CIA, was related to the Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. He died of three gunshot wounds.

15 - Suzanne Coleman - Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when
he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the
back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.

16 - Paula Grober - Clinton's speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident.

17 - Danny Casolaro - Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena
Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his
wrists, apparently, in the middle of his investigation.

18 - Paul Wilcher - Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1980 "October Surprise" was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993 in his Washington DC apartment. Had
delivered a report to Janet Reno three weeks before his death.

19 - Jon Parnell Walker - Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington, Virginia apartment balcony August15, 1993. He was investigating the Morgan Guarantee scandal.

20 - Barbara Wise - Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely
with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died
November 29, 1996. Her bruised, nude body was found locked in
her office at the Department of Commerce.

21- Charles Meissner - Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave
John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.

22 - Dr. Stanley Heard - Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health
Care Advisory Committee, died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a
small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton's
advisory council personally treated Clinton's mother, stepfather and brother.

23 - Barry Seal - Drug running pilot out of Mena Arkansas, death was no accident.

24 - Johnny Lawhorn Jr. - Mechanic, found a check made out to Bill Clinton in the trunk of a car left at his repair shop. He was found dead after his car had hit a utility pole.

25 - Stanley Huggins - Investigated Madison Guarantee. His death was a purported suicide and his report was never released.

26- Hershell Friday - Attorney and Clinton fund raiser died March 1, 1994 when his plane exploded.

27 - Kevin Ives and Don Henry - Known as "The boys on the track" case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas airport drug operation. A controversial case, the initial
report of death said, due to falling asleep on railroad tracks. Later reports claim the two boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony
could come before a Grand Jury.

THE FOLLOWING PERSONS HAD INFORMATION ON THE IVES/HENRY CASE:

28 - Keith Coney - Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck, July 1988.

29 - Keith McMaskle - Died stabbed 113 times, Nov, 1988

30 - Gregory Collins - Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.

31 - Jeff Rhodes - He was shot, mutilated and found burned in atrash dump in April 1989.

33 - James Milan - Found decapitated. However, the Coroner ruled his death was due to "natural causes."

34 - Jordan Kettleson - Was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup truck in June 1990.

35 - Richard Winters - A suspect in the Ives / Henry deaths. He was killed in a set-up robbery July 1989.

THE FOLLOWING CLINTON BODYGUARDS ARE DEAD:
36 - Major William S. Barkley Jr.
37 - Captain Scott J. Reynolds
38 - Sgt. Brian Hanley
39 - Sgt. Tim Sabel
40 - Major General William Robertson
41 - Col. William Densberger
42 - Col. Robert Kelly
43 - Spec. Gary Rhodes
44 - Steve Willis
45 - Robert Williams
46 - Conway LeBleu
47 - Todd McKeehan

Quite an impressive list!


IF HILLARY EVER GOT IN, I'M NOT GOING TO VOLUNTEER TO WORK FOR THEM !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wonder how many of them were smokers to boot!

Ah, the old Arkancide list.

You have to admit, it does seem like a hell of a lot of coincidences.